Honda Shadow Forums banner

dunlop 404s? should i return to OEM?

11K views 61 replies 25 participants last post by  adlowe 
#1 ·
after a year of confidence destroying riding I've come to the conclusion that I hate my Metzelers. 880 and 888 rear. Breaking the rear out is just not my idea of fun.

I've read lots of recos here about other tires... Night Dragons, PR4s, Shinkos... anyway, it seems difficult to find pairs in the sizes needed for my 02 Sabre.

I'm thinking about going back to Dunlops. As always this is the best source for opinions and advice so I'm throwing it out there...

I don't care if i get high mileage out of them I just want a tire that sticks , thoughts?
 
#2 ·
I would rather ride one of these things..



....Than ride around on a Flip-Flopz 404.. And enjoy the better traction in the high speed corners...

But all that's just a personal thing..

Then, I loved the Metzelers 880's ..So ..There's that.. :neutral:
 
#3 ·
I'm sorry you don't like the Metzelers. They were wonderful to me. Pirelli MT66 would be the 2nd tire I would recommend for a cruiser. I am running Bridgestones on my ST and love them! They are great in wet and smooth!
Don't go to 404's, go Shinko or Kenda first!
 
#4 ·
yeah it's the 888 that I don't trust, I really wanted to love these tires. After posting this and seeing my sig photo remembered I rode those tires across the Smoky mountains in the rain with no problem... maybe it was the added weight of all my gear. But just cruising to bike night I got to the point i just didn't trust the tires and then the bike... not a good feeling.
 
#5 ·
Well, I can only comment on my personal experience. The three sets of dunlops I've run were all better in the rain than the Michelins I'm running now. Maybe the bike and I are just too light for the harder compounds of the Michelin, I don't know. What I DO know is that twice now the commander II on the rear has gotten squirrelly on me when braking in the rain, and I'm not an aggressive rider. I didn't go down on either occasion, but scares the s*** out a guy nonetheless. JMHO
 
#14 ·
The Michelin ComIII I have on the back end tends to lock up a bit easier on dry road. I won't get them again....and I kind of can't wait for it to wear out.

I never had a complaint about the stock Dunlops on my Shadow 750, Loved the Metz 880s on my Vstar, the ComIII...not so much.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The 888 is a good tire apparently, but the people I ride with that have them also don't think they are as sure footed as the 880, Unlike the 880 where you run the pressure higher than spec to get the best miles out of it without loosing much in the way of traction the 888 gets better results traction wise at std pressure, bit to sketchy above spec pressure.

Night dragon is good but I wont see the miles I got out of the Commander II but its not as good in wet with a cold tire, the night dragon and 880 are better. I run a lower profile rear than stock so have never tried the 888 for myself as they dont do the size I ride with but then I am not keen too try when they slip on a piece of road I didn't.
 
#7 ·
don't see the Perilli MT 66 in the sizes I need. just found the rear only. Anyone run Shinko 230 Tourmaster?

i need 120/90-18 and 170/80-15

Yeah I'm not an agressive rider either and I don't like my a$$ end coming round to meet the front. I've done it in rain and dry conditions and once under hard braking on dry pavement. I'm running them at the factory spec pressure, i think that's 41.
 
#8 ·
For an unloaded bike 41 psi sounds kinda high IMO. The recommended pressure for my bike is 29 psi.

That being said, ALOT of people run the 404 with no problems as far as traction is concerned. Some simply hate them, some like them, me being one of them.

I have a set of MT66 on the Rebel and liked them too. Only problem I had with them is the rear tread started to wear funny and was causing a slight wiggle in the handlebars in corners. Felt like I was riding on rain grooves. The dealer I took the bike to said from their experience the Pirelli's wear better running slightly higher pressures than what is recommended. Other than that they are a good choice too.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Metzlers, Dunflops....I've used a lot of bike tires. I will never go back to one now after riding on the darkside. I bought my ACE with a double darkside and I absolutely love it. My second bike riding on the darkside. It's worth the research to consider it and if you where closer to me I'd let you ride mine to check it out.

Also....maybe a stupid question....but are you using your rear brake when braking? You're back end shouldn't come around like that unless there is just a total loss of traction. I've had that happen before in a 90 degree corner after a stop light accelerating....but never when braking. Sounds pretty scary.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I've only ridden one bike. My bike has only had one set of tires. Got new Dunlops 404's installed when I bought it. I have no experience with any others. What I do know is that I have read lots of posts about tires and have yet to read ANY post where everyone agreed that any one tire was any better than the others. Every thread has both pro and con comments about every tire ever mentioned. So there cannot be any one tire better than another. There are too many different variables. I will say that no tire manufacture will sell a tire to a consumer if it were not a good tire. They simply will not allow a poorly designed tire to reach the consumers. Now there may be better tires for different riders depending on how you ride or how you choose to maintain your tires. This is kind of like saying which oil is best for my bike...and we all know the answer to that.
I want good sound tires for my bike. I don't want to miss out on an improved product but I'm not too sure you can get much better than what the bikes manufacture recommends for your specific ride. See your manual and buy what they recommend and run them according to the manufactures specs. This should produce positive results.
 
#20 · (Edited)
after a year of confidence destroying riding I've come to the conclusion that I hate my Metzelers. 880 and 888 rear. Breaking the rear out is just not my idea of fun.
Ditto.

yeah it's the 888 that I don't trust, I really wanted to love these tires.
Double ditto.

maybe it was the added weight of all my gear.
Doubt it. In fact, I believe just the opposite: ME888s were designed for heavier bikes and left us Shadow owners behind when they started dropping the ME880.

Well, I can only comment on my personal experience. The three sets of dunlops I've run were all better in the rain than the Michelins I'm running now. Maybe the bike and I are just too light for the harder compounds of the Michelin, I don't know. What I DO know is that twice now the commander II on the rear has gotten squirrelly on me when braking in the rain, and I'm not an aggressive rider. I didn't go down on either occasion, but scares the s*** out a guy nonetheless. JMHO
Ditto. Michelin's high-mileage claim was based on a Hardley that is MUCH heavier than my Shadow. Metzeler went to a stiffer compound to match that mileage claim. I did NOT see any mileage gain over an 880 though I did see a huge traction LOSS. Never again with an 888!

The 888 is a good tire apparently, but the people I ride with that have them also don't think they are as sure footed as the 880, Unlike the 880 where you run the pressure higher than spec to get the best miles out of it without loosing much in the way of traction the 888 gets better results traction wise at std pressure, bit to sketchy above spec pressure.
Ditto. Except that 888s are sketchy at any pressure when compared to 880s.

For an unloaded bike 41 psi sounds kinda high IMO. The recommended pressure for my bike is 29 psi.
My bike has a range -- from 33 to 41 for the rear. I found 40 to be the sweet spot for 880s but 888s downright scary at the high end of the range. Never did find a PSI that made it sure footed.

That being said, ALOT of people run the 404 with no problems as far as traction is concerned.
As they report here -- with no way of knowing how they ride. We can only guess on where they ride. Relevant, for example, as I would never trust a "sure-footed" report from a guy in Kansas while I'm riding the Appalachians.

I'm thinking about going back to Dunlops. As always this is the best source for opinions and advice so I'm throwing it out there...

I don't care if i get high mileage out of them I just want a tire that sticks , thoughts?
You couldn't pay me enough to get me to put another D404 on my bike. Cheap junk!

If I was considering Dunlop, I'd look at the K177/K555 combo that was stock on my bike. They weren't great for handling and the K177 followed every pavement groove and slipped over every tar snake on sunny days but they were decent tires. Weren't available at retail when I replaced the original set but they should be now. I'd also look at Elite 3s -- said to be great tires and stock on ACE Tourers. I've read good reports from one or two guys running 200-series Dunlops that are NOT recommended for our bikes.

Other brands I would consider are Bridgestone (Great on a Boulevard S50 I rode semi-regularly over the last 3 years.) and Pirelli. (I went with a Night Dragon to replace the ME888 on the rear over an MT66 based on Leathel's reports. Haven't put on enough miles to form an opinion yet.)

Avon Venoms got a LOT of favorable reports from Shadow owners but ran into some manufacturing issues earlier this year. AFAIK, all the "bad" tires were replaced under warranty but that's not enough for me -- replacing tires is a PITA.

There are a lot of good reports on Chinese tires but I won't buy or recommend them for philosophical reasons. (I don't buy pipe from China when I'm doing plumbing repairs, either.)

FWIW, as far as I'm concerned Pirelli is the brand worth trying right now. If I don't like the Night Dragon then I'll probably give MT66s a try -- might end up with one on the front when my ME880 wears out. (Night Dragons aren't made in my size. Haven't checked MT66s yet.) If not Pirelli then I would probably go Avon. Their manufacturing problems should be resolved already; no doubt they will be by the time I get another tire. (Tyre if it's Avon. :smile2: )
 
#23 ·
In all fairness Dunlop make some great tires.. The Elite 3 just for one.. But the 404.. :neutral: ..In my estimation, the rubber compound is too soft and the carcass isn't rigid enough for my liking.. They're okay in town at lower speeds; they gave a soft ride, but broke traction too early under heavy braking, and at higher speed, especially in the corners they get downright scary feeling.. That and tar snakes and imperfections in the road led my bike around like it was on a leash..

Nope! .. There were better tires for me... But Dunlop does make some good tires. But the 404 isn't one of them, again, just in my opinion.
 
#32 ·
What I would do is: Shinko 777 120/90-18 front Shinko 777 HD 170/80-15 rear
On my 750 ACE I've been happy with that this mix for the past few months 120/90-17 front, 170/80-15 rear.
They were true and round and balanced easily.
One up or two up with added luggage, dry or wet, I've been impressed, definitely better than the tired Bridgestone Exedra that were on there.
No idea what the tire wear will be like, but for now all is good.
 
#34 ·
You guys make me feel like an insensitive, feelingless cad! Why? Because I have never in all my many years of riding on many different models and makes of bikes from Goldwing to enduros to cruisers to crotch rockets and everything in between, and after both longish multi-day tours to local mountain twisties to singletrack trails...I have never noticed any significant differences in tire performance no matter what brand of rubber was on there. On the occasions when traction has failed me it was my own fault or the surface I was riding on simply did not permit good grip.

Really. Am I really that poor or inattentive of a rider that these nuances escape my notice? I hate to think so, but you tire congoscenti have me wondering.
 
#35 ·
Hi Mike, this is exactly my point. There are no bad or unsafe tires out there. Some may ride differently than others but no tire is the cause of an accident. In my case is was failing to slow down enough in a curve because I was "in a hurry" and I know full well it was MY fault. Any one who expects tires to stop on a dime in cold, wet conditions is only kidding themselves. I have tried many different brands of tires on my cars and trucks over the years and yes I can feel a difference in how they ride but none of them have been unsafe. Look, If you like one tire over the other then by all means go with those. I'm not here to argue at all, just saying ride within the limits of the equipment you have and all of us will remain safe.
 
#40 ·
I have chopped and changed lately, trying to get the best of a tire, I do ride faster than a lot of my cruiser friends (And travel twisty back roads often) so get less miles per tire, I do feel the difference in grip between brands and types, the way the start to let go.... some its just like a switch and they step out quite a lot, others just gently slide and give you warning ..


But that being said drive to your grip level and they wont be an issue

I would run Commander II tires again, just when the tires are cold in the wet go easy, they handle well lasted well and did not wear the middle out as much as others kept a good handling shape..... etc etc
 
#48 ·
fronts and Pirrelli in your size is not the best match

Route 66 options and pretty small in comparison, 3.00 and 100/90 are both quite a lot smaller and will put the speedo well out if driven of the front wheel

The Night dragon is closer with 130/70, or maybe a 140/70 as the extra width will gain profile height if it fits in space available

Profile of the tire is a percentage

100/90 is the profile is 90% of the width so 90mm high
130/70 is 91mm high but as its going on the same rim the profile will stand higher than the 100/90
140/70 is 98 high but will be higher on the same rim as the others .... if it will fit.
120/90 is 108 high
Personally I would try the 140/70 to see if it fits.

My bike specs say I need a 170/80 (136 high) but I am running a 180/70 (126 high) to drop the gearing, with the wider tire the height ended up around 130 as far as I can tell, so it still did gear it down little, Just for reference to running different sizes :)

No perfect match if you want to go Pirrelli but I would stick with the ME880 for now anyway :)


http://www.mad-ducati.com/Technical/TireInfo/TireChart.html
 
#49 · (Edited)
Personally I would try the 140/70 to see if it fits.
130 or 140 should not be much of an issue on my bike; Sabre should be the same. The first is 5mm wider on each side (0.20 inches) and the second is 10mm on each side (0.40 inches). I haven't put a ruler on it but I think there's plenty of room in the front.

As for height, I would be reluctant to go with anything shorter than the stock 26.5 inches. (Derive that by 2 * 120mm * 90% = 216mm = 8.5" then add 18".) I'd want to go with a 130/90 or 140/80. But my speedometer reads too high. These two choices would reduce the error 2.7 percentage points or 1.2 percentage points. Too bad Pirelli doesn't offer them in those sizes.
 
#52 ·
You could get 3000 miles on a dozen wraps of duct tape. 9-13,000 miles on the ones I've worn out with no punctures on any of them. Not a high miler but probably as much as you'd get out of a comparable softer tire.
 
#54 ·
The set I have on the bike now are Dunlops (not sure which model), and they were REALLY 'squirelly' when I first had them on. Didn't like that one bit! Previous set was cheap King tires, but they were FANTASTIC, for wear, ride, and handling. If I could get another set of King's, I'd do it in a heartbeat! I think it was only $165 for both front and rear. Bike handled like a dream with them on, and they lasted nearly 20-25k miles. Cheap tires are not always 'cheap', as in not worth the $ or don't last long. Sometimes, they really are the best bet!
 
#55 ·
Well, this thread didn't make me feel real good about my tires. I just bought this bike last month and the tires are D404s. The rear looks brand new and the front has at least one more season left on it. I took it out tonight and didn't feel any issues with them, and it's damp from the rain earlier today. But I'm also not pushing them hard. I don't do that on a bike, it hurts too much when you fall down. :)

That said, if I get at least one good season out of them I'll look at others next spring but no issues at the moment.
 
#56 ·
They are crappy tires, but not unsafe. As long as you have tread and no cracking ride them. But, don't buy more.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
#59 ·
My current scooter is a 2013 Phantom with D404 tires. have about 3000 miles on them and have not had any issues with them. I do not ride hard but I like to ride the curvy roads. I have been looking at the different tires and some of them have a scary lack of tread to me. Does the amount of tread grooves make a difference, good or bad, or is it more about choosing the rubber compound?
 
#60 ·
Does the amount of tread grooves make a difference, good or bad, or is it more about choosing the rubber compound?
Grooves don't make much difference. Depth probably matters a bit on wet roads if you let enough of it wear away. Compound seems to make more of a difference with our bikes. Air pressure is FAR more important than either, though. Too high brings traction problems, too low brings handling issues and either one reduces tire life. Getting it just right takes a little more than reading Honda's recommendation (for the original stock tires on the bike) from the swing arm.

FWIW Jake Wilson had the best deal on my Avon but...
Good to know. Last I looked, Venoms were what Avon was pushing for my bike. Can't find them in bias ply anymore. (Wonder if those manufacturing problems early last year affected that.) Cobra looks like a better product. I'll keep it in mind because I should be needing a new front late this year.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top