Honda Vs. Harley

[JBourquin]

Originally Posted by cubz83

I just cant justify spending all that money on a bike or for repairs. Guess I am just a cheap skate but oh well. I like my little honda and am just as happy as someone riding their 20,000 harley.

Ive spent exactly $0 for repairs on my Harley in the last 3yrs. I don't even wanna know how much money I'm gonna have to dump into my Honda to get it running again. Maintenance doesn't count because oil costs the same whether you're putting it in a Honda or a Harley.

[hunnus2000]

Originally Posted by Hondaguy

I 'd like to see a link for that drastically different story. I cannot find sales information broken down. I believe becasue of shear numbers Metric cruisers over 750ccs are outselling Harley v twins in the US.

According to this article, in 2010, Honda produced 18 million motorcycles and looks to have sold right at 18 million motorcycles worldwide. But if you take a closer look at the numbers the one figure that jumps out is the volume sold in Asia and Oceania (14 million) where motorcycles are commonly used as transportation as opposed to recreation. The other notable figure is the units sold in the US at 192,000 which was down from 2009. Additionally, they are including sales of ATVs so it’s safe to assume that they include Scooters, Sports Tourers, Cruisers, Dirt Bikes and Crotch Rockets in these numbers. Honda keeps their sales figure locked up pretty tightly so it’s hard to get more granular than this.

I also found this article where from 2003 to 2009 Honda sold about 83,000 Sabres across the US so I guess the numbers were so overwhelming that they felt they had to do a major overhaul of the Sabre. I dunno, 83K over a 6 to 7 year period doesn’t seem that impressive to me.

According to a HOG magazine article published in 2011, Matt King writes that in 2008 HD became the top selling brand in sales of new on road motorcycles to young adults aged 18-34. That trend continued upward in 2009 but I have no information on 2010 or 2011 sales figures. There data was based on the automotive Research Firm R.L. Polk.

And since we’re talking about Honda vs. Harley here’s a couple of tidbits about Harley you may not know:

Showroom Discounts – Sure you can get discounts on Honda bikes, especially if they are brand new on the showroom floor and 3 years old. Take a look at that 2009 DN-01 that was 15,599 down to 9,999. One can look at this as a great deal or you can say that they have problems selling their product or maybe it’s simple over-production. You won’t see this at Harley.
For Harley, it’s all about strengthening the brand so Harley will not discount below MSRP which is very competitive BTW. If they catch a dealer continually discounting below MSRP, they get a visit from the “Guido Heads” from Corporate who will try to help you in your times of financial crisis. Since you need to discount, we’ll cut your shipments of motorcycles until you see better financial times. Harley feels that discounting below MSRP dilutes the brand in not just pricing of new motorcycles but also used motorcycles which explains why the resale value of Harleys is higher than with other brands.

When CEO Keith Wandell took over HD in 2009 he streamlined operations and cut production to meet demand. Along the way he closed unprofitable pieces of the business and trimmed corporate fat. He also immersed himself into the HD culture by learning to ride again along with riding to rallies all over the globe. He seems to genuinely care what the Harley consumer thinks and wants. Remember, Harley makes motorcycles. They don’t have the luxury of a mother company like Honda does or even Victory so I would think one would find it pretty impressive that they are going stronger than at any time of their illustrious history.

[Hondaguy]

I agree with the notion that you make enough product to keep it in demand. Harley has done exactly that. If they increase production judiciously which retains the sales prices. They know which side of the bread is buttered.

Harley doesn't simply sell motorcycles. They sell exclusivity to a lesser extent today. and more so a "community" lifestyle.

It has been less about the bike than the community since the 90's. Before that Harley was another motorcycle who had their share of missteps and needed government protection just to remain in business against an onslaught of reliable cheap Japanese imports whom at that time were not copying.

They only started copying Harley to capitalize on the "Rolex rider" movement in the roaring 90's where 300K manufactured bikes were just not enough for those suddenly flush with cash that hungered to be seen in BMW 525is and on a suddenly "rare" Harley Davidson. For many of whom, it was their first motorcycle. Before that HD was associated with outlaw gangs and were great for wrenchers and actually inexpensive. American made to the bone. No German air cooled engineering or Japanese parts. That would have been as blasphemous as a radiator today considering relatively recent US history at the time and the then standard of American pride.

Today the whole patriotism theme has been diluted with the advent of Foreign made parts and Chinese made accessories wrapped in the "American" flag. This is not a bad thing but the reason people want to own a Harley has changed drastically since the 70's and 80's. It's not ALL about the motorcycle and American Patriotism any more. IMO It's about the community of proud owners, HOG. That's not a bad thing. Either one wants to join or not. It's not as much an exclusive club anymore.

If I desired a Weekend hang with a large group of like minded everyday fun people. I would buy one and go to a myriad of fun places in Murrells Inlet where one will see 50 or more Harleys lined up out side and a group of like minded people sharing stories over a few beers talking about Accessories and their bikes. Many are fair weather riders and for others, the only days of the week they can ride. It's a fellowship few motorcycle owners groups enjoy here. Their are no such places for " generic motorcycle riders" or sport bike riders. Harley is king here. It's the State bike. I have never lived in a state where Harley was so beloved and prominent. Californians seemed to be obsessed with sport bikes when I lived there in the 70s and 80s. Nevada was not really a bikefest at all until the 90's when people waited 6 months for Las Vegas Harley to deliver their order and dealers could not sell across state lines. That's when I sold mine. I wasn't in love with the bike, I just saw an opportunity to cash out when I saw an empty Harley showroom floor.

I see no reason to bash the product. Its a beautiful machine. But I prefer water cooled and Japanese technology and I especially cannot wrap my head around a $16,000 price tag for any new motorcycle before personalizing it or the associated payments. Although I kind of like that blacked out Fat boy......Throw a hidden radiator in that bitch......

[cblack6540]

i bought my first brand new bike in 1976 it was a cb360t. its now 2012 i have owned several other bikes,of different brands, and wrenched on the brands i didn't own. i'm still proud to be a Honda Man. By the way "i'm too old to change my ways now" lol

[woodboats]

I think both brands have helped each other over the years.
Honda has helped Harley with design, Electric start, the Water cooled design, Hydraulic clutch, Rubber engine mounts, Electronic ignition, the Disk brakes used nowadays, electronic speedometer, Cruise control, or auto blinking signals to many other things were metric first. I think Harley shocks are made by a company owned by Honda.

Both source their parts from many different countries, China, Taiwan, Japan etc. Lots from China.

Honda is made in USA also so is probably as much American made as Harley.
Honda is made in different Asian countries, like Harley is made in Brazil and India.
It's a global economy now and to survive they need to work the system.

[hunnus2000]

Originally Posted by woodboats

I think both brands have helped each other over the years.
Honda has helped Harley with design, Electric start, the Water cooled design, Hydraulic clutch, Rubber engine mounts, Electronic ignition, the Disk brakes used nowadays, electronic speedometer, Cruise control, or auto blinking signals to many other things were metric first. I think Harley shocks are made by a company owned by Honda.

Both source their parts from many different countries, China, Taiwan, Japan etc. Lots from China.

Honda is made in USA also so is probably as much American made as Harley.
Honda is made in different Asian countries, like Harley is made in Brazil and India.
It's a global economy now and to survive they need to work the system.

So if metrics helped bestow all this new technology to Harley then why is Honda still installing drums brakes on their Shadow and Rebel lines of bikes? Also, Honda hasn't manufactured bikes in the USA for a few years now. And let's not forget, Honda only got around to installing EFI on their cruisers in the last few years.
I don't see Honda blazing new technological trails.

[Floyd Dolin]

Originally Posted by hunnus2000

Also, Honda hasn't manufactured bikes in the USA for a few years now.

Yep. Honda motorcycle manufacturing in the USA moved to Japan in 2009. My wife is quite proud of the fact that her Shadow was manufactured in the Marysville, OH plant. She emphasizes Made in the USA as depicted on the rear of the seat of her bike.

[CrazyDave]

Originally Posted by hunnus2000

So if metrics helped bestow all this new technology to Harley then why is Honda still installing drums brakes on their Shadow and Rebel lines of bikes? Also, Honda hasn't manufactured bikes in the USA for a few years now. And let's not forget, Honda only got around to installing EFI on their cruisers in the last few years.
I don't see Honda blazing new technological trails.

of course not, but I guess it seems to sound good to some

[woodboats]

I never realized that Harley was no longer made in the US, but I have no doubt that Honda and other metrics have contributed greatly to motorcycle technology over the years. Harley has been one company that has taken advantage of this. It's not a bad thing you know.
IMO Harley's Indian factory would do well to develop a bike to get their share in the Asian market, something maybe 250cc to 750cc.

[CrazyDave]

Originally Posted by woodboats

I never realized that Harley was no longer made in the US, but I have no doubt that Honda and other metrics have contributed greatly to motorcycle technology over the years. Harley has been one company that has taken advantage of this. It's not a bad thing you know.
IMO Harley's Indian factory would do well to develop a bike to get their share in the Asian market, something maybe 250cc to 750cc.

The one bike they tried doing that with has never received enough sales to warrant a continuation..it's called a VROD , it is their red headed stepchild