Largest Honda Dealer in US Under Investigation

[kokopellioh]

Originally Posted by adlowe

Shock bolts do NOT show up on any T-CLOCS list I've ever seen.

IMHO, T-CLOCS is after you've made sure it is ready to go. Rather like the difference between a pilot's pre-flight and an annual inspection.

And when you buy a new bike off the dealer's floor you expect him to have put it together right.

I'm thinking I need to lay in a set of calibrated torque wrenches of my own prior to next spring. And find my Fletcher's manual.

[Dauntae]

OH GEE So if any of us buy a BRAND NEW bike we all need to check and re-tourque EVERY BOLT?????? That has to be the biggest BS statement of the day, Why have them put it together when you will be going over every bolt they put in, Just save the money and do it your self. We have them do it because there the ones with the know how and we put trust into them to do it right. YES some don't but if someone is ragging on another because the shock bolts were not tightened right and saying there in the wrong for not checking them that person is a is a keyboard cowboy who thinks they know it all and probably can barely wipe there own butt without help. Lets get real and stop attacking for the sake of being a @$$

[1996shadow]

Originally Posted by Dauntae

OH GEE So if any of us buy a BRAND NEW bike we all need to check and re-tourque EVERY BOLT?????? That has to be the biggest BS statement of the day, Why have them put it together when you will be going over every bolt they put in, Just save the money and do it your self. We have them do it because there the ones with the know how and we put trust into them to do it right. YES some don't but if someone is ragging on another because the shock bolts were not tightened right and saying there in the wrong for not checking them that person is a is a keyboard cowboy who thinks they know it all and probably can barely wipe there own butt without help. Lets get real and stop attacking for the sake of being a @$$

Maybe you should take your own advise about attacking for the sake of being a @$$. On a new bike there is always a good chance of things working loose when it is new. If you don't understand that, you have a problem. The frame flexes as you ride and will eventually settle. Until then, even if the thing is torqued to spec, bolts may work loose. That is one reason a lot of people, the manufacturers too, will use lock-tite on many bolts on motorcycles.

I have an 86 and also a 96 1100 Shadows. On both bikes I have found bolts that were loose. Does that mean that the dealer left them loose? I don't think so!

[Dauntae]

OK I was a little harsh but I am NOT attacking, Just grow tired of so many posts putting others down UN-justly. Things happen and there is ALWAYS someone to say it's there fault. Example if a clutch cable breaks and someone tells about it, WHY is there always someone to say "Well you didn't inspect it so it's your own fault" in stead of offering advice. Just at my wits end of these posts lately with people throwing blame acting as though they are perfect is all. and as for the loose bolts, That was about a brand new bike, Not a older bike like you are referring to. Maintenance needs to be done clearly but not checking all the bolts on a brand new bike??? really now

[kacealraid]

I've always been the guy to do regular maintenance on my machine. Oil, filter, air filter, etc. You know, liquids and moving parts checking on occasion. But, as for everything else, it gets fixed when it breaks. Some things just go by the wayside, and that's okay. Some people disagree with that, but that's why they have a check list and do what they do on their machine. We're made up of all kinds around here.

[1996shadow]

Originally Posted by hunnus2000

And if I rode older bikes like you, I would be checking them twice as much because i would be twice as paranoid. Older bikes have older parts that are harder to find. There ARE service centers that are owned by the manufacturers or manufacterer.

You are right about the older bikes statement, and I do check them regularly. As far as service centers being owned by the manufacturers, I have to say I have never seen one. The only ones I have seen were attached to a dealership. They are owned by the dealer, who is licensed by the state to sell motorcycles, and not the manufacturer. They are franchises of the manufacturer. The manufacturer can pull the franchise license if there is a history of problems or fraud in warranty claims, but otherwise they have little control as long as the franchise rules are followed.

[hunnus2000]

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

You are right about the older bikes statement, and I do check them regularly. As far as service centers being owned by the manufacturers, I have to say I have never seen one. The only ones I have seen were attached to a dealership. They are owned by the dealer, who is licensed by the state to sell motorcycles, and not the manufacturer. They are franchises of the manufacturer. The manufacturer can pull the franchise license if there is a history of problems or fraud in warranty claims, but otherwise they have little control as long as the franchise rules are followed.

Ahh - I see what you're saying and not only defer to your statement but also agree with it although the manufacturer sets up standards, policies and procedures.

Nice clarification!

[gat803]

Dealers (in general) do surprisingly little to assemble most new motorcycles, and they don't do much more to used ones.

New motorcycles need the handle bars bolted on and the battery installed and that is just about it. I helped assemble the 2004 Spirit 11 that I bought new, I still have the manufacturers assembly instructions. The dealer is not going to run around the bike checking fasteners. They poor in a gallon or two of fuel and fire them up. Few dealers will even do a test ride around the lot.

Used scooters might/might not get obvious or known problems addressed, but again the dealer is not going to check every nut and bolt....

[adlowe]

Originally Posted by rkforrest

I can see your shock Bolts from your Picture

That's not the stock seat. It's a Saddleman Explorer. Shocks aren't stock anymore, either.

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

If I bought a new bike, I would be checking it fairly regularly after riding it for a while. There is always a chance things will work loose after it is shaken down.

I did. I just didn't realize that I should have done it before even firing up the bike as soon as the paperwork was signed.

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

As far as the service department doing poor work, put yourself in their shoes once. Chances are that they, like most everyone else in a service type of job, are now expected to do more with less, in less time, for less money. They are also probably interrupted numerous times while assembling a new bike.

Agree completely. That's inherent in the point I was making about a high-volume dealer selling unsafe bikes without malice.

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

Also, all service departments are always knows as "profit centers". No one manufacturer is any different than the next on that. How it is run has nothing to do with the brand.

Not quite. HD dealers ARE different, in general, than Honda motorcycle dealers. Not across the board, not all dealers. HD probably makes more on refitting new sales than any other major motorcycle brand and that definitely has something to do with it.

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

An auto dealership owner that I knew once told me that he makes his money in the back and would have no sales force if he wasn't required to.

He isn't required to. He can close down the sales operation and run as an independent repair shop. Many do. It enables them to work on many different brands. He chooses to operate as a full sales-and-service operation. Maybe he should thoroughly reconsider that choice.

Originally Posted by 1996shadow

On a new bike there is always a good chance of things working loose when it is new. If you don't understand that, you have a problem. The frame flexes as you ride and will eventually settle. Until then, even if the thing is torqued to spec, bolts may work loose.

In the first 500 miles? Gimme a break.

Originally Posted by gat803

...but again the dealer is not going to check every nut and bolt....

Scratch out that "every" and insert "any" and you'll have my expectation level now. At least on motorcycles. Even Hondas. I'm not quite there yet on cars and trucks. Next new bike I buy, I'll be thinking "in the crate". Unless I get a great deal.

[DarkSpirit750]

Most dealers that I have worked for would rather sell new than have a service department. For most owners, Service/Parts is just something thats required and not worth having. As for getting rid of a sales department, you can, but in order to have the backing of a manufacturer you must have all departments represented on your lot.