So is this what being a motorcycle enthusiast is all about?

[SkullCrusher]

If you're a beginner I strongly suggest you invest money in gear and the msf course.

Gear does not mean bandanas and Nikes.

[CrazyDave]

Originally Posted by SkullCrusher

If you're a beginner I strongly suggest you invest money in gear and the msf course.

Gear does not mean bandanas and Nikes.

I guess that depends on your definition of gear... I prefer carpenter shorts and Sketchers myself.

[Hondaguy]

Originally Posted by sweet041100

I see you're an IT guy. My laptop locks up, doesn't always start and some times doesn't run. Your advice would be to throw it out, correct?

LOL That's what I just did and I am not a IT guy......but the notebook was a 10 year old Dell refurb. Sometimes ya just gotta let go.

OP I learned a long time ago. If you cannot fix a bike you cannot afford an inexpensive old bike.....and join the AMA for road assistance.

[Hondaguy]

Originally Posted by SkullCrusher

Gear does not mean bandanas and Nikes.

The hell it don't!! Unless they are Velcro Nikes. Laces can be treacherous on a bike at a stop light

[Motorchef]

In all seriousness, as a professional I have seen this scenario many times. You made the comment that you put the battery tender on for a while and after some time it started. Additionally, if you attempted to demonstrate this issue during warm weather of after you have ran the bike and the charging system has elevated the charge in the battery the issue will not show up. This leads me to a common issue that is often overlooked; The battery and its connections. At rest the battery should have 12.6 volts at 70 degrees. For every 10 degrees drop in temperature the voltage will drop .1 volt. But a static reading such as this is not the whole story. The battery will crank the motor down to 9.6 volts but the ignition will not spark below 10.2 volts and will degrade and not be able to start the bike below 10.6 volts. Although the battery may test as good at rest it may not have enough amperage during cranking due to age, weak acid, or possible cracked plate connections internally. This condition is common in recreational and power equipment and is not so uncommon in automobiles.
The other culprit I would suspect is high resistance in the battery cables. The best way to find this issue is by doing a voltage drop test on the positive cable. A voltage drop test is done by placing the positive end of the volt meter on one end of the battery cable and the negative on the other in the direction of current flow. Crank the bike and look for a reading under 1 volt. If the reading is higher than 1 volt then high resistance is your culprit. This could be dirty connections or a cable rotting from the inside out which is a common way battery cables fail. Remember, an ohm test is not an effective test for a battery cable. An ohm meter only send a minute amount of current and a large cable can pass this small amount of energy through it if only part of the cable is good.
Probe the starter, and the bolts holding the negative cable on. Check each component seperately by disconnecting each from the circuit and ohm checking individually for less than .3 ohms resistance. I had a customer bring me a KZ1000 years ago that had a new battery but weak cranking and no start but you could kick start the bike and it ran fine. The ohm test showed a good ground. This was due to the frame ground wire being good and an ohm meter finding the path of least resistance. Remember, the starter does not rely on the frame ground; it must have a good ground through the negative battery cable. The bolt holding the negative cable on was rusty inside the frame and had 30 ohms resistance, hence the weak cranking.
Check the ground to the ignition module. A poor connection here can cause weak spark even though all other connections are good. Also, check the color of the spark by laying the plugs on the cylinders and crank the motor. A common mistake here is people cranking for a few seconds and thinking they see good spark. Remember, when the plugs are in the starter draw is much heavier on the battery so your initial spark is not indicative of a real world cranking condition. Crank the bike for 20 seconds and see if the spark degrades, this can be due to high resistance at any point in the ignition system. No component connection should have more than .3 ohms resistance. Also, have the volt meter connected to the battery while cranking and watch to see if the voltage drops below 11.1 volts. This is a sign of a weak battery or high resistance somewhere in the ignition and starting system.
These issues often vex the general technician and the hobbyist as they rarely experience these failures. Ignition modules are very sensitive to high resistance and small drops in system voltage. I cannot tell you how many times customers have replaced coils, modules and blamed fuel systems for these issues. I have fixed these problems for some of the most determined do it yourselfers once they are totally frustrated. I have also purchased, fixed and profited from many people who think the bike has a mysterious issue and it is simply fixing poor electrical connections, bad cables and defective batteries. I can’t tell you this is definitely your issue from behind this computer but you might as well check these things since nothing else seems to be wrong once you raise the voltage in the battery and the bike starts. Good luck, I hope I am some help.

[hunnus2000]

Two words - fuel injection.....

[BullockD]

Originally Posted by RoastRider

Always wondering if your bike will let you ride? I am seriously considering giving this up and selling the bike. The amount of aggravation and stress is just not worth it. The bike starts when it wants to, period.

Is this really what it is like to be a motorcycle owner? I never know if the bike will start or not. It never behaves the same way twice. Motorcycle mechanic tells me "nothing is wrong with it." Other guys I trust (years of experience wrenching) tell me they don't know what is going on. Mostly because it will fire right up when they are around.

No offense but most of the "advice" I get is extremely stupid like the starter switch and petcock position. Really? Thats the pro tips huh?

If this is the life of a motorcyclist, count me the hell out.

So is this what being a motorcycle enthusiast is all about?
: a person filled with enthusiasm:
a : one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit
b : one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest


R U 1?

[Earthling789]

Originally Posted by Motorchef

In all seriousness, as a professional I have seen this scenario many times. You made the comment that you put the battery tender on for a while and after some time it started. Additionally, if you attempted to demonstrate this issue during warm weather of after you have ran the bike and the charging system has elevated the charge in the battery the issue will not show up. This leads me to a common issue that is often overlooked; The battery and its connections. At rest the battery should have 12.6 volts at 70 degrees. For every 10 degrees drop in temperature the voltage will drop .1 volt. But a static reading such as this is not the whole story. The battery will crank the motor down to 9.6 volts but the ignition will not spark below 10.2 volts and will degrade and not be able to start the bike below 10.6 volts. Although the battery may test as good at rest it may not have enough amperage during cranking due to age, weak acid, or possible cracked plate connections internally. This condition is common in recreational and power equipment and is not so uncommon in automobiles.
The other culprit I would suspect is high resistance in the battery cables. The best way to find this issue is by doing a voltage drop test on the positive cable. A voltage drop test is done by placing the positive end of the volt meter on one end of the battery cable and the negative on the other in the direction of current flow. Crank the bike and look for a reading under 1 volt. If the reading is higher than 1 volt then high resistance is your culprit. This could be dirty connections or a cable rotting from the inside out which is a common way battery cables fail. Remember, an ohm test is not an effective test for a battery cable. An ohm meter only send a minute amount of current and a large cable can pass this small amount of energy through it if only part of the cable is good.
Probe the starter, and the bolts holding the negative cable on. Check each component seperately by disconnecting each from the circuit and ohm checking individually for less than .3 ohms resistance. I had a customer bring me a KZ1000 years ago that had a new battery but weak cranking and no start but you could kick start the bike and it ran fine. The ohm test showed a good ground. This was due to the frame ground wire being good and an ohm meter finding the path of least resistance. Remember, the starter does not rely on the frame ground; it must have a good ground through the negative battery cable. The bolt holding the negative cable on was rusty inside the frame and had 30 ohms resistance, hence the weak cranking.
Check the ground to the ignition module. A poor connection here can cause weak spark even though all other connections are good. Also, check the color of the spark by laying the plugs on the cylinders and crank the motor. A common mistake here is people cranking for a few seconds and thinking they see good spark. Remember, when the plugs are in the starter draw is much heavier on the battery so your initial spark is not indicative of a real world cranking condition. Crank the bike for 20 seconds and see if the spark degrades, this can be due to high resistance at any point in the ignition system. No component connection should have more than .3 ohms resistance. Also, have the volt meter connected to the battery while cranking and watch to see if the voltage drops below 11.1 volts. This is a sign of a weak battery or high resistance somewhere in the ignition and starting system.
These issues often vex the general technician and the hobbyist as they rarely experience these failures. Ignition modules are very sensitive to high resistance and small drops in system voltage. I cannot tell you how many times customers have replaced coils, modules and blamed fuel systems for these issues. I have fixed these problems for some of the most determined do it yourselfers once they are totally frustrated. I have also purchased, fixed and profited from many people who think the bike has a mysterious issue and it is simply fixing poor electrical connections, bad cables and defective batteries. I can’t tell you this is definitely your issue from behind this computer but you might as well check these things since nothing else seems to be wrong once you raise the voltage in the battery and the bike starts. Good luck, I hope I am some help.

This is all good advice ^^, and after reading your previous posts, I'm inclined to believe Motorchef is onto something here.

When I bought my first bike in 20+ years, I knew that VT700 had electrical issues... careful and meticulous work with my digital meter, replacing a couple of bad parts as I found them... but mostly re-wiring more than half the bike solved all the issues. I know it is frustrating as hell, and you either have to dig in and find the problem, or cut your losses (selling for as much as you can get)... and buying a newer or better running machine if you still have the bug to ride!

I'm an IT nerd myself, so I know the frustrations of not isolating the issue within a few minutes, but these bikes are not operating systems, switches, or hubs... but they are capable of being diagnosed in much the same way... you just have to start eliminating what works to find what doesn't... "once you eliminate all of the 'possible', whatever is left, however 'improbable' must be the issue" - if you were close-by... I'd be happy to lend you a hand to find the issue....

[CrazyDave]

I don't know how much you spent on your bike, but it must have seemed like a good deal at the time..

I don't know how old you are, but I can't believe you lived this long and expected a second hand bike to be as good as the seller said it was.

you should know that you can buy a car and get one year out of it before you have to scrap it because of repair costs, or you could get ten years out of it..

A real biker / motorcycle enthusiast buys a bike because he want's to ride it, when it causes problems he spends as much time as it takes to get it working properly, he doesn't spend a lot of money because he has a service manual, he takes photos of each thing he takes apart and stores the bits in a labled bag or box, he doesn't buy the parts until he knows he needs them..and if the job is going to keep his bike off the road for any length of time he buys another cheap bike to use while he is doing the repairs..

My advice is..sell the bike and get as much back from the sale as you can then buy a car..

You can always boast that you used to ride a V twin motorbike..

John.

Sometimes I like you, this is one of them

[5ft2]

Originally Posted by RoastRider

Now the temp has dropped and I am trying to start the bike in the morning. I'd say it was in the 30's. Yesterday after trying to start the bike I put the tender on it and left it for 6 hours or so. I came back and it fired right up.

When you try to start the bike with the battery fresh off the charger does it start EVERY time, or was this an isolated incident?

You say the battery is good but how did you come to that conclusion?

And...after a ride, will it easily start when it is warmed up? (Is this a first start of the day problem or does it occur throughout the day too?)


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