Helmet recommended - full face, modular or shell?

[We trudge on]

We prefer a half or 3/4 helmet for comfort (we are a bit claustrophobic and the full face feels too close). We grant that the ff offers better protection in a spill.


We trudge on.

[Redman52]

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

From the last helmet thread I posted in:


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Let see, about 1/8th inch of the plastic/fiberglass/whatever abraided away, that would equal about what? of flesh and jaw bone and nose?

1/8th inch of the shield is maybe, oh, say, nose ground completly off down to the skull.

1/8th inch of the chin bar is how much off the jaw bone? maybe, oh, say, most all of chin and maybe couple teeth. Just quessing. Maybe over estimating, but just thinking of it.

I have had occassion to think of it a lot. My son has similar picture of the front of his full face helmet.
Back/ lower part of helment also has wear, one place worn thru where only a few fibers remaining, else could stick finger through.
Police report says he slid unconcious on pavement about 200 feet, well, the report said he was found on pavement about 200 feet from where bike went down, maybe he didnt slide all that way. Similar wear on jacket and riding pants and boots.(and he doesnt remember what happend). (and no wear on gloves).
Only real injury: two broken fingers. No road rash at all.
No helmet: WOuld have been >> splat <<
3/4 helmet: would have been a lot of face gone.
Half helmet: would have been a lot of face gone and probably lot of other head injurys.

I like modular, but realise that am giving up a bit of protection as compared to full face.

DOT vs. Snell.
In general:
Snell specification is to absorb a lot larger impact force before collapsing, which means it is stiffer. The Snell was developeded mostly for auto racing. THe Snell also has more specification for hitting up against edges and pointy things. SO all the Snell is for much more severe impacts, which means it also transmits more of the impact to your head in smaller impacts. SNell tests all the areas of the helmet. And on a modular the area where the latch and pivots are located will not pass some of the tests.

DOT specification is to absorb less of an impact which means the materail (typically like stryofoam) is softer. So on a lesser impact the DOT will absorb more of the impact. But on a higher impact like Snell has to abosorb the DOT will not absorb all of it.
Dot does not really test the chin bar anyway.

My opinion is that most typical concern is something like head hitting pavement. And if think about that, and the vertical speed that head hits pavement is about the same if fall over at stop sign, or knocked over at stop sign, or loose controll in curve at 40mph or drop off edge of pavment at 60 mph (son's incident). I am refereing to how many feet per second head is going down towards the pavement, not how many miles per hour are going along the road. And I think DOT good enough for that.
If stopped, well then hit head probably once, if moving then maybe hit and maybe slide and roll and hit head multiple times.
Other concern is something like car pulls out in front of you and you brake and slow down but cant avoid it, and go flying, and head is gonna hit something.

ANd if moving at all, in addition to hitting head, will also be sliding.
Think of if that halfhelmet (beanie) gonna still be on your head if sliding along on pavment.
A 3/4 (down over ears) will be much better for staying in place when sliding.

Anyway, can not really predict what sort of collision/hazzard you might experience.
But Snell meant to absorb much more, so is stiffer, which means you are going to get bumped harder on a smaller impact than if had DOT helmet. And if had DOT helmet it is going to be softer and do better on small impact, but not as good on big hit. Hard to describe what a small impact is and what a big impact is.

Now if going 60 mph and run into the back of stopped truck... ah... if actaully hit it, well, this helmet verse that helmet may not really matter (other than how you look at funeral).

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[ZackDaniels]

Originally Posted by We trudge on

We prefer a half or 3/4 helmet for comfort (we are a bit claustrophobic and the full face feels too close). We grant that the ff offers better protection in a spill.

That's a big part of it too. If the FF causes discomfort and distraction then it increases your odds of having an accident in the first place. Better protection in an accident wouldn't be enough for me to increase my odds of having one. In my opinion you're making the right call by not wearing one due to your circumstances.

[Lady Strange]

I have a modular

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Motorcycle.com Free App

[gat803]

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

I can assure you it's not just to sell more helmets. The MSF and Snell determined the magic 5 year rule and they don't sell helmets, MSF has nothing to do with them and Snell is just R&D. The 3 part is just speculation on the average helmet being subject ot excessive gas fumes and temps that prevent it from lasting the full 5.

Really? You can assure us of that?
H3ll, you didn't even read the information put out in your own link, you can't assure anyone of anything.

"The length of time that a helmet is viable was determined by a consensus between the DOT Helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation."

"Hair oils, body fluids, environmental situations and normal wear and tear may cause a deterioration in performance."

Notice in the quote where it says "DOT helmet manufacturers"?
Also notice in the second quote where it says "may cause a deterioration"? May cause. Not WILL cause, but MAY cause. Can you say CoverYourAzz.

Believe as you will, but in my experience replacing a helmet every five years is bullsh!t. The life of a hat is dependent on too many things to put a definitive date on it.

I've owned race helmets that were sweat in, dragged thru the mud/grime, and bounced around every weekend, that were toast in a year. I have had other hats that are stored in a bag in a conditioned closet, and are worn only a few times a year for a short time. These lids are fine after ten years.

It all has to do with use and storage.

[ZackDaniels]

You're right, the MSF just reviewed and recommends based on the manufacturers and Snell foundation's research. This is pretty much all I've found to go on, and haven't found anything against this. Please point to a study that isn't your own closet that says otherwise. I would be interested in reading it as it might save me $100 in 4 years.

I'm sure there are helmets that go well beyond 5. Bottom line though manufacturers warranty up to 5 based on their own research, and independent research says that's about right. A widely recognized safety foundation that doesn't sell helmets also says that's about right. So unless you've got some x-ray machines or something else to confirm your super excellent storage and careful usage preserved beyond the commonly recognized milestone just buy a new lid every 3-5 years.

Most people are not storing them in closets, they're storing them in sunlight on sissy bars and helmet locks at least part of the time. They drop them every so often. Stuff gets spilled on it... etc. There's a lot of exposure and less than ideal temps and conditions that happen to the average road use helmet in that time.

Sorry to have misquoted slightly and offended your closet's awesome ability to store helmets. Can I ask how you know the 10 year old closet helmets protected as well/as designed/as certified to protect as they would have within their first 5 years?

[PDM]

Originally Posted by Susan07

None unless...I'm in a "Nanny" state...

Ah, Freedom!

[gat803]

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

Please point to a study that isn't your own closet that says otherwise. I would be interested in reading it as it might save me $100 in 4 years.

Sorry to have misquoted slightly and offended your closet's awesome ability to store helmets. Can I ask how you know the 10 year old closet helmets protected as well/as designed/as certified to protect as they would have within their first 5 years?

I have no studies.
I have my own observations over many, many years, and common sense. Remember the statement in your link about the guts of a helmet being made of Polystyrene? Polystyrene is also the stuff that some disposable cups are made of, and coolers, and insulation, etc, etc... So we (the common folks) have some degree of experience with Polystyrene.

Look at a new foam cup. Fairly durable. You can deform it, bend it, squeeze it, and it will mostly retain its function. Have you ever found an old foam cup laying out in the elements? If you picked it up you found it was brittle enough to crumble in your hands, right? Now, have you ever found a foam cup hidden out of the elements in a cupboard still in its packaging? If you handle that cup, you would likely find it somewhere in between the other two cups.

I've done this same thing with old helmets. Looked inside at the guts and handled them. While not using approved scientific/approved test equipment, it's still obvious to even an untrained eye, whether or not the polystyrene has become brittle.

None of this is proof positive to back up my opinion. I cannot assure anyone that their 8 year old helmet is still safe. You can't assure me that my 2 year old helmet is safe. I offer an opinion, just like you. Neither one of us can assure anyone of anything.

You (the collective you) can rely on studies if you like. I choose to put things in my hands and make judgements based on what I see and feel. This reminds me of the car tire argument. The guys that are sure it won't work are the same ones that rely on the engineers with their studies. The guys that are running car tires are actually getting the experience with their own hands.
Do you go by the manufacturuers suggestion and change your oil every 8000 miles? Why not? The engineers and their studies say you can.

As I said before....believe as you will. I make no assurances. I offer opinions.

[justinmahn]

My favorite helmet is modular. I am well aware that it provides less protection than a medieval bassinet. That's my choice, and my state is helmet optional. The kids get full bubble head helmets when they ride.

[squarebore]

I just bought a new Shark full face (not the modular) with the integrated sunvisor inside. Best helmet I have ever worn. The sunvisor works a treat and saves trying to squeeze sunnies on. Great airflow but when you lock the visor down it all goes quiet. Love it.