HELP - Starting problem - PLEASE! - Honda Shadow Forums : Shadow Motorcycle Forum

CJH · 03-25-2012, 10:16 AM

Here is the situation:

2006 Honda Shadow Spirit with 42,000 miles on it. I last rode the bike in November. Over the winter, I set the valve clearances. During the process of removing and installing the front valve cover, I accidentally knocked loose the small hose that goes from the thermostat to the upper radiator which was a bear to fix.

I put in new plugs at the time, gapped and torqued. The bike would not start until I replaced the gas with fresh gas. Tank is off the bike as I intend to synch the carbs. I started the bike several times and let it warm up, only to find a persistent cooling leak where that thermostat attaches to the cooling hose to the radiator. It is very hard to get at. It took me about 3 or 4 warm ups of the engine to finally get rid of the leak. Next time I tried to start the bike, it started and ran initially, stalled eventually and won't start again. Seems to be flooded. The battery quickly runs down when trying to start it. Then I have to wait most of the day for the battery maintainer to recharge the battery, only to repeat the process.

I was fooling with the carbs to synch them when this happened, and they are totally out of synch at this point...I don't know if this affects starting.

I think I am going to jump it from my car. Maybe the extra battery capacity will help the engine kick. Any other ideas?

Would it make sense to use starting ether that you spray into the carbs?

marcham · 03-25-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJH

Here is the situation:

2006 Honda Shadow Spirit with 42,000 miles on it. I last rode the bike in November. Over the winter, I set the valve clearances. During the process of removing and installing the front valve cover, I accidentally knocked loose the small hose that goes from the thermostat to the upper radiator which was a bear to fix.

I put in new plugs at the time, gapped and torqued. The bike would not start until I replaced the gas with fresh gas. Tank is off the bike as I intend to synch the carbs. I started the bike several times and let it warm up, only to find a persistent cooling leak where that thermostat attaches to the cooling hose to the radiator. It is very hard to get at. It took me about 3 or 4 warm ups of the engine to finally get rid of the leak. Next time I tried to start the bike, it started and ran initially, stalled eventually and won't start again. Seems to be flooded. The battery quickly runs down when trying to start it. Then I have to wait most of the day for the battery maintainer to recharge the battery, only to repeat the process.

I was fooling with the carbs to synch them when this happened, and they are totally out of synch at this point...I don't know if this affects starting.

I think I am going to jump it from my car. Maybe the extra battery capacity will help the engine kick. Any other ideas?

Would it make sense to use starting ether that you spray into the carbs?

I wouldn't try jumping it from a car ... the extra current available could damage wiring before a fuse kicks in. .... as for your starting problems, I don't know. If the tank is off the bike, how are you feeding the gas?

If the engine refuses to turn, you may have hydrolock, which can lead to bent rods.

gat803 · 03-25-2012, 11:30 AM

It sounds like you may be pulling the carbs apart for a cleaning. Six months is long enough for untreated gas to spunk your carbs. Pull the plugs to see how they look. You can use ether to start your bike but do so sparingly.

You can also set the sync very close by feel and sight without the engine running if you have to. Sync is nothing more than making sure that both carbs open at the same time and by the same degree.

Also, it will not hurt your bike to jump start it from a car.

93gc40 · 03-25-2012, 11:51 AM

Charge the battery, clean the fuel system, and CORRECTLY adjust the carbs.

Get a battery CHARGER. Hook it up to the battery at the 2amp or lower rate, DURING servicing, kick it up to higher amp setting for starting the bike. START-UP is 90% of the batteries reason to exist. Start-up is also the most electrical power consuming activity on the bike. It takes hours of charging by the alternator or a maintainer to replenish the power lost to pushing the starter button for more than 5 seconds. OK to jump from a car battery, car motor OFF. Do not leave the car bat hooked to the MC for more than a couple minutes at a time.

Fooling around with the sync screw can and will affect starting. In general FOOLING around with any screw has the potential for causing issues.

Ba

marcham · 03-25-2012, 12:07 PM

Hum ... also don't use a charger while starting unless the charger has a battery start mode ... many chargers don't provide DC power to the battery. Starting with the charger connected can damage many chargers.

Boosting a motorcycle sounds simple, but consider what you are doing. Do you have any fuel leaking? Will you get a solid clamp with the booster cables on the tiny motorcycle battery terminals? How close will the frame be to the + terminal? What's preventing the motorcycle from starting, is it a battery problem, starter problem, engine mechanical problem, ignition problem, fuel problem? I'm just saying ... it ain't as simple as boosting a car. And yes, if you use a car battery you run a greater chance of frying wiring or bending a rod. With a hydrolocked engine, the battery should not be able to provide enough current to turn the engine over. With a car battery, your available starting current increase by a factor of 3-6. The wiring in the bike is not designed for 600A.

Tobias · 03-25-2012, 12:09 PM

As long as the car is not running, jumping the bike from the car battery is fine. I've had to jump mine that way a number of times while getting it to run properly. I've had startup issues from old fuel and from letting even a little bit of fuel sit in the bowls for more than a couple days. I just grabbed a can of carb cleaner and shot a bunch in there to clear it out and the bike got started. I shot some in, turned it over, shot some more and put everything back on. Be generous with the carb cleaner. Once everything was back on it turned over for about 15 seconds (refilling the bowls in the carbs)and then started the next attempt. Mine's an '83 and this worked on mine. Should work for you if dirty carbs from fuel sitting in them is your issue. Best of luck!

CJH · 03-25-2012, 12:20 PM

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses! Wow!

I found the problem. I am embarrassed but I will tell you.

I do have a regular battery charger with a 2 amp setting, but it takes too long to recycle...e.g. run the starter...battery runs down, put the charger on...wait many hours...repeat process. Too inefficient for troubleshooting.

The bike gas tank is setting on a table next to the bike with a piece of automotive fuel line connecting it to the bike.

I know there are mixed opinions on jump starting a bike from a car battery, but I decided to do it and it worked out fine. Starter did not sound any different than it usually does. I don't know if it could have damaged the bike battery...that would be the only thing...time will tell on that. It is an old battery anyway so I am not overly concerned.

After connecting cables from the car to the bike, the starter turned fine as it did off of the bike battery alone, but both cylinders still not firing at all. I adjusted the carb sych screw while running the starter motor to make at least a course adjustment. I replaced all 4 brand new plugs and then examined the ones I removed...damn they were all dry.

Without any further suspense, the problem turned out to be that the gas tank switch was on the regular tank, not the reserve. When I replaced the gas from last season, the tank was filled to just above the reserve setting. That's why it ran well at first, eventually quit and would not run again. Dumb a$$ mistake I know, but fortunately easily corrected. After switching to reserve the bike started immediately and ran smoothly in the usual fashion. I synched the carbs using the home made vacuum gauge as I have done in the past. Checked for coolant leaks and none were detected.

After some rest and a shower, I am going to put it all back together and hopefully (if weather holds out), go for a ride later today.

Thanks again for the quick responses.

marcham · 03-25-2012, 12:26 PM

Congrats!

WhyMe · 03-25-2012, 12:27 PM

Glad to see that you got her going. Sometimes it's the simplest of things.

Harvey · 03-25-2012, 02:04 PM

Glad to see you got it sorted out.

03-25-2012, 10:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
CJH Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edinboro, PA Posts: 640	HELP - Starting problem - PLEASE! Here is the situation: 2006 Honda Shadow Spirit with 42,000 miles on it. I last rode the bike in November. Over the winter, I set the valve clearances. During the process of removing and installing the front valve cover, I accidentally knocked loose the small hose that goes from the thermostat to the upper radiator which was a bear to fix. I put in new plugs at the time, gapped and torqued. The bike would not start until I replaced the gas with fresh gas. Tank is off the bike as I intend to synch the carbs. I started the bike several times and let it warm up, only to find a persistent cooling leak where that thermostat attaches to the cooling hose to the radiator. It is very hard to get at. It took me about 3 or 4 warm ups of the engine to finally get rid of the leak. Next time I tried to start the bike, it started and ran initially, stalled eventually and won't start again. Seems to be flooded. The battery quickly runs down when trying to start it. Then I have to wait most of the day for the battery maintainer to recharge the battery, only to repeat the process. I was fooling with the carbs to synch them when this happened, and they are totally out of synch at this point...I don't know if this affects starting. I think I am going to jump it from my car. Maybe the extra battery capacity will help the engine kick. Any other ideas? Would it make sense to use starting ether that you spray into the carbs? __________________ '06 Shadow Spirit VT750DC, Candy Orange

03-25-2012, 11:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
gat803 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,795	It sounds like you may be pulling the carbs apart for a cleaning. Six months is long enough for untreated gas to spunk your carbs. Pull the plugs to see how they look. You can use ether to start your bike but do so sparingly. You can also set the sync very close by feel and sight without the engine running if you have to. Sync is nothing more than making sure that both carbs open at the same time and by the same degree. Also, it will not hurt your bike to jump start it from a car. __________________ Hey look, a covered bridge...

03-25-2012, 11:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
93gc40 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Visalia, CA Posts: 4,352	Charge the battery, clean the fuel system, and CORRECTLY adjust the carbs. Get a battery CHARGER. Hook it up to the battery at the 2amp or lower rate, DURING servicing, kick it up to higher amp setting for starting the bike. START-UP is 90% of the batteries reason to exist. Start-up is also the most electrical power consuming activity on the bike. It takes hours of charging by the alternator or a maintainer to replenish the power lost to pushing the starter button for more than 5 seconds. OK to jump from a car battery, car motor OFF. Do not leave the car bat hooked to the MC for more than a couple minutes at a time. Fooling around with the sync screw can and will affect starting. In general FOOLING around with any screw has the potential for causing issues. Ba __________________ 93 VT1100C Harley Killer (1150cc), VH Exhaust, 2mm sleeved and bored, Modified Heads and Valves, Adjustable Timing, Touring Seat, Baby Apes, Metzlers

03-25-2012, 12:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tobias Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Laurel Maryland Posts: 191	As long as the car is not running, jumping the bike from the car battery is fine. I've had to jump mine that way a number of times while getting it to run properly. I've had startup issues from old fuel and from letting even a little bit of fuel sit in the bowls for more than a couple days. I just grabbed a can of carb cleaner and shot a bunch in there to clear it out and the bike got started. I shot some in, turned it over, shot some more and put everything back on. Be generous with the carb cleaner. Once everything was back on it turned over for about 15 seconds (refilling the bowls in the carbs)and then started the next attempt. Mine's an '83 and this worked on mine. Should work for you if dirty carbs from fuel sitting in them is your issue. Best of luck! __________________ 1983 Honda Shadow VT500C

03-25-2012, 12:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
CJH Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Edinboro, PA Posts: 640	Thanks to everyone for the quick responses! Wow! I found the problem. I am embarrassed but I will tell you. I do have a regular battery charger with a 2 amp setting, but it takes too long to recycle...e.g. run the starter...battery runs down, put the charger on...wait many hours...repeat process. Too inefficient for troubleshooting. The bike gas tank is setting on a table next to the bike with a piece of automotive fuel line connecting it to the bike. I know there are mixed opinions on jump starting a bike from a car battery, but I decided to do it and it worked out fine. Starter did not sound any different than it usually does. I don't know if it could have damaged the bike battery...that would be the only thing...time will tell on that. It is an old battery anyway so I am not overly concerned. After connecting cables from the car to the bike, the starter turned fine as it did off of the bike battery alone, but both cylinders still not firing at all. I adjusted the carb sych screw while running the starter motor to make at least a course adjustment. I replaced all 4 brand new plugs and then examined the ones I removed...damn they were all dry. Without any further suspense, the problem turned out to be that the gas tank switch was on the regular tank, not the reserve. When I replaced the gas from last season, the tank was filled to just above the reserve setting. That's why it ran well at first, eventually quit and would not run again. Dumb a$$ mistake I know, but fortunately easily corrected. After switching to reserve the bike started immediately and ran smoothly in the usual fashion. I synched the carbs using the home made vacuum gauge as I have done in the past. Checked for coolant leaks and none were detected. After some rest and a shower, I am going to put it all back together and hopefully (if weather holds out), go for a ride later today. Thanks again for the quick responses. __________________ '06 Shadow Spirit VT750DC, Candy Orange

03-25-2012, 12:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
WhyMe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Queensbury,New York Posts: 103	Glad to see that you got her going. Sometimes it's the simplest of things. __________________ 1995 Shadow VT1100C Some great games to pass away your time.

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