Spark supposed to be able to jump 6mm gap? - Honda Shadow Forums : Shadow Motorcycle Forum

mdills981100 · 05-09-2012, 11:17 PM

I read in a Hayne's manual for my bike (1998 VT1100C2 ACE) that the spark is supposed to jump a 6mm or 1/4" gap...? I set up something like the home-made contraption that the manual explained how to make, and I get nothing between a 1/4" gap. It did spark once, but only once immediately after I let off of the start switch and only from one of the cables.

What's the point of jumping 6mm when the gap on the plug is much less than that...?

Should I be checking into something else since I don't have the spark...?

I've been having flooding issues lately, and can't seem to get that fixed, and it seems to be worse when the engine is hot and I try to start it after a few minutes of being turned off.

MED

tubes_rock · 05-10-2012, 10:46 AM

The gap distance is a measure of voltage. The test is to verify that the coils are putting out the right voltage, which for a spark plug translates into heat. Sure, the gap on a spark plug is less, but if you're not giving it the power voltage, the spark won't be hot enough to reliable or efficiently ignite your fuel charge.

What distance were you able to get the spark to jump? Atmospheric conditions will affect that distance, so if it's only missing by a little bit, you're probably still fine.

--Justin

mdills981100 · 05-10-2012, 02:17 PM

I moved the pieces closer together down to 1/8" and it would jump on all (4) checks. If that's not good enough to produce the heat needed, I guess I need to check the coils. There's a section in the Clymer's manual I have for checking the coils and such. I guess I'll add that to my list of things to do...

Is there something else I should be looking at as well...?

MED

tubes_rock · 05-11-2012, 09:53 AM

1/8" is kind of weak, but depending on the setup, doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem. You get a spark at all, so that's a start.

Time to keep digging!

--Justin

John Hopkins · 05-11-2012, 03:37 PM

Making that Haynes tester is ok providing that the electrodes are really well connected..a poor solder joint can make the difference between the spark jumping 1/8" and 1/4" also the HT leads and plug caps could be faulty or dirty or just poorly connected.

John.

mdills981100 · 05-12-2012, 10:05 AM

I'm going to go through the ignition testing section of my Clymer's manual and do each test it recommends. It may take a few evenings to complete them all, but I'll have a much better idea of what the real problem might be...

Thanks for the info. I'll post back in a few days with my progress.

MED

gmck · 05-12-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdills981100

I'm going to go through the ignition testing section of my Clymer's manual and do each test it recommends. It may take a few evenings to complete them all, but I'll have a much better idea of what the real problem might be...

Thanks for the info. I'll post back in a few days with my progress.

MED

what is the problem? Just that it wont jump the spark or some runability problem?

rrounds · 05-12-2012, 03:46 PM

Most Shadow's have a weak spark even when NEW. I have found that Iridium plugs take less volts to jump the gap than the standard plugs. I put Iridium plugs in my Shadow ACE Tourer three years ago and my bike starts faster and runs better now than it ever did in the first 13 years I've had this bike(yes I keep my bikes a long time).

ROD

mdills981100 · 05-13-2012, 02:18 AM

To gmck, I did the test that the Hayne's manual has in their manual, and it wouldn't jump the 6mm gap. I don't remember exactly what the manual said to do in that case, but I'll look back and see. It does run badly at times, but I think it's fuel related. I've had a lot of flooding issues lately, mostly when trying to start the bike a few minutes after a ride. I'll leave it running depending on how long I'm going to be off of it when I stop somewhere to see someone or do any errands, because I have this constant fear of it not starting back. It gives me a hard time starting back without gas pouring out of the exhaust pipes. Then, I have to change the oil every time it does that, because if it's coming out of the exhaust pipes, it had to fill the cylinders first... I talked to (2) local bike shops, and they were surprised to hear that liquid gas was pouring out of the exhaust pipes. They said it was a rather bad problem to have. If you'll search "gas leaking from exhaust pipe", there's a 4-page thread on what my problem was, and still is at times... Watching someone get on their bike, push the button, and it firing right up makes me a little aggitated (if that's how you spell it), because I can't have that confidence in mine. I'm constantly worried that I'll have starting issues, mostly because I usually do. I've also read many, many threads about proper starting technique and how to properly use the choke (fuel enrichment valve). I'm pretty sure I'm doing that right.

To rrounds, that's the next item on my list of purchases. I searched for spark issues in the technical forum, and most everyone agreed that iridium was the way to go. Some said "a plug is a plug", but I'm going to change them for my bike. If it doesn't make a difference, it'll be one less thing I have to worry about...

MED

John Hopkins · 05-13-2012, 05:17 AM

To eliminate the spark issue..get a new plug..pull any one of the leads off a sparkplug and plug it on to the new one, take a piece of wood and press the thread of the new plug against one of the engine fins...turn the engine over and watch the new plug for a good spark..repeat on all four..if you have a good spark you have eliminated everything electrical except the plugs.

John.

05-09-2012, 11:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
mdills981100 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: GA Posts: 52	Spark supposed to be able to jump 6mm gap? I read in a Hayne's manual for my bike (1998 VT1100C2 ACE) that the spark is supposed to jump a 6mm or 1/4" gap...? I set up something like the home-made contraption that the manual explained how to make, and I get nothing between a 1/4" gap. It did spark once, but only once immediately after I let off of the start switch and only from one of the cables. What's the point of jumping 6mm when the gap on the plug is much less than that...? Should I be checking into something else since I don't have the spark...? I've been having flooding issues lately, and can't seem to get that fixed, and it seems to be worse when the engine is hot and I try to start it after a few minutes of being turned off. MED

05-10-2012, 10:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
tubes_rock Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern NH Posts: 5,341	The gap distance is a measure of voltage. The test is to verify that the coils are putting out the right voltage, which for a spark plug translates into heat. Sure, the gap on a spark plug is less, but if you're not giving it the power voltage, the spark won't be hot enough to reliable or efficiently ignite your fuel charge. What distance were you able to get the spark to jump? Atmospheric conditions will affect that distance, so if it's only missing by a little bit, you're probably still fine. --Justin __________________ 2010 Honda NT700V 1986 Shadow 700 1986 Honda Trail 110 (Postie Bike)

05-11-2012, 09:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
tubes_rock Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern NH Posts: 5,341	1/8" is kind of weak, but depending on the setup, doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem. You get a spark at all, so that's a start. Time to keep digging! --Justin __________________ 2010 Honda NT700V 1986 Shadow 700 1986 Honda Trail 110 (Postie Bike)

05-11-2012, 03:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
John Hopkins Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Tredegar,South Wales, near England, not far from Scotland. Posts: 3,412	Making that Haynes tester is ok providing that the electrodes are really well connected..a poor solder joint can make the difference between the spark jumping 1/8" and 1/4" also the HT leads and plug caps could be faulty or dirty or just poorly connected. John. __________________ Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes right to the bone.

05-12-2012, 03:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
rrounds Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sacramento,CA Posts: 1,012	Most Shadow's have a weak spark even when NEW. I have found that Iridium plugs take less volts to jump the gap than the standard plugs. I put Iridium plugs in my Shadow ACE Tourer three years ago and my bike starts faster and runs better now than it ever did in the first 13 years I've had this bike(yes I keep my bikes a long time). ROD __________________ '98 VT1100-T so many roads so little time

05-10-2012, 02:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
mdills981100 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: GA Posts: 52	I moved the pieces closer together down to 1/8" and it would jump on all (4) checks. If that's not good enough to produce the heat needed, I guess I need to check the coils. There's a section in the Clymer's manual I have for checking the coils and such. I guess I'll add that to my list of things to do... Is there something else I should be looking at as well...? MED

05-12-2012, 10:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
mdills981100 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: GA Posts: 52	I'm going to go through the ignition testing section of my Clymer's manual and do each test it recommends. It may take a few evenings to complete them all, but I'll have a much better idea of what the real problem might be... Thanks for the info. I'll post back in a few days with my progress. MED

05-13-2012, 02:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
mdills981100 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: GA Posts: 52	To gmck, I did the test that the Hayne's manual has in their manual, and it wouldn't jump the 6mm gap. I don't remember exactly what the manual said to do in that case, but I'll look back and see. It does run badly at times, but I think it's fuel related. I've had a lot of flooding issues lately, mostly when trying to start the bike a few minutes after a ride. I'll leave it running depending on how long I'm going to be off of it when I stop somewhere to see someone or do any errands, because I have this constant fear of it not starting back. It gives me a hard time starting back without gas pouring out of the exhaust pipes. Then, I have to change the oil every time it does that, because if it's coming out of the exhaust pipes, it had to fill the cylinders first... I talked to (2) local bike shops, and they were surprised to hear that liquid gas was pouring out of the exhaust pipes. They said it was a rather bad problem to have. If you'll search "gas leaking from exhaust pipe", there's a 4-page thread on what my problem was, and still is at times... Watching someone get on their bike, push the button, and it firing right up makes me a little aggitated (if that's how you spell it), because I can't have that confidence in mine. I'm constantly worried that I'll have starting issues, mostly because I usually do. I've also read many, many threads about proper starting technique and how to properly use the choke (fuel enrichment valve). I'm pretty sure I'm doing that right. To rrounds, that's the next item on my list of purchases. I searched for spark issues in the technical forum, and most everyone agreed that iridium was the way to go. Some said "a plug is a plug", but I'm going to change them for my bike. If it doesn't make a difference, it'll be one less thing I have to worry about... MED

05-13-2012, 05:17 AM	#10 (permalink)
John Hopkins Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Tredegar,South Wales, near England, not far from Scotland. Posts: 3,412	To eliminate the spark issue..get a new plug..pull any one of the leads off a sparkplug and plug it on to the new one, take a piece of wood and press the thread of the new plug against one of the engine fins...turn the engine over and watch the new plug for a good spark..repeat on all four..if you have a good spark you have eliminated everything electrical except the plugs. John. __________________ Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes right to the bone.

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