Re-Jet sounds worse now

[BluesHwy66]

So the bike shop I brought my VTC600 to might very well be giving me a shine. The back story is this: 94 VTC600 with Jardine slash cut pipes from previous owner who never bothered re-jetting the carbs. I rode it for a few months and it seemed <<ok>> but I could feel it was running a bit lean and had an intermittent high idle. Not very much backfiring at all, unless I was running super low on fuel.

I decide to get the carbs worked on and have the air filter replaced at a local shop near me. Long story short: they quoted me 2 hours for labor, and then did 5 hours without calling me to check. I talked them down to a compromise (just because I wanted this thing done already after they had it for over 4 days). Claimed "she's running like a top". Start it up, sounds pretty beefy, and off I go.

Now after riding it a week, I feel like the bike runs like an old man with a lung infection. Every time I decelerate it backfires like a sonofabitch. That, and at 50+mph, it occasionally pulls like it's running low on gas even with a full tank. Obviously the tech dialed in for the perfect sound at idle, and not for a decent fuel mix.

Question: Should I bring this back to the shop and have them monkey around on it for another X days and tell them I'm not satisfied with the work or just bring it to the Honda powersports shop across town and have their guy dial it in and be done with the first crew?

Thnx
Mark

[oblivion_twister]

if not satisfied take it back.

[93gc40]

First, Adjusting the carb will not Affect the SOUND. Thats all in the exhaust.

NO, I wouldn't take it back to the same mechanic. I might give him the bill for the repair, though..

Having the carbs, "Worked ON", is meaningless? What, exactly, did you have done to the bike? What parts were replaced and why? have you bothered to LOOK for a potential cause, you now hose that got left off, leaking carbs boots, loose electrical connection, ect?

[BluesHwy66]

@93gc40 - I understand that the exhaust, not the carburetor, affects the sound. It was merely an observation that it started up nice and sounded a bit bigger than before the new jet kit was installed. That's what I meant by "worked on". I had a basic carburetor cleaning and dyno jet kit installation to work better with the aftermarket exhaust. Whereas it seemed to be running lean (lots of bluing) and idling high.

But the issue now is, I feel the fuel/air mixture has swung right on over the other direction and the mix is too rich, causing excessive backfiring at the slightest deceleration. This would also cause the pulling/chugging at higher sustained speed because there is just too rich a mixture for the engine to run smooth.

I put a call into the shop and am waiting to hear back from the owner. I just wanted some feedback from everyone to see if this is a common occurrence or if I'm dealing with an apparently sloppy technician.

Thanks for the info, everyone!

-MM

[93gc40]

What jets were removed and what were used?
What grove is the needle set at?
Were the carbs sync'd?
What parts were replaced?
What are voltages at the battery, OFF, ON, stater running, idle and max volts(high rpm)?
You do realize the rejetting a bike can be a MULTI step process. You might need to redo the job several times, in order to get the correct combination of jets and settings???? The instruction provided give you a starting point every time, sometime that is close to the end point, some NOT. Can get quite expensive if you don't do the work yourself? Or have it done right the first time. I spent almost 50 hours of DYNOmometer aided tuning getting mine right. Could be normal could be sloppy or inexperienced mechanic. Could be a Great mechanic, just never had to deal with multi carbed watercooled V-twin motors, before.

[BluesHwy66]

@93gc40 - you raise a lot of excellent questions... that's kinda why I brought the bike to a mechanic instead of frustrating the bejezzus out of myself trying to do the work without much experience on a multicarbed v-twin... ever.

My post, the main question, was is this worth going back to the same shop that couldn't get it done right the first time or avoid the drama and go straight to Honda? Next time I'll put this type of request of feedback in the gen discussion page instead. You are obviously very knowledgeable in this process and I apologize if this is wasting your time.

-M

[93gc40]

Your not wasting time.. Your question is afterall the purpose of this forum....

If you were my kid I would give you a Repair manual and lock you in the garage, till we or you, alone, got it fixed. It not really a difficult thing, it can be time consuming though. I learn most of what I know from Haynes, Chiltons and Clyner repair manuals, and many hours of trial and error and research. What I'm saying is that, yes, you could take it back to the same guy or go to Honda, and get the same results. You have more experience with your bike than any mechanic does. You are the best testing, diagnosis and tuning tool for your bike, the mechanic doesn't have this tool. I don't have that tool. You just have to learn to understand what your bike is telling you. Your issues are Air/Fuel mixture related. You are either running Rich or Lean or BOTH, nothing in your description pionts definatively eitherway. Now you just have to find the cause. Start with the electrical powered parts FIRST. You must have proper voltage and ignition, first. A weak battery or dirty switch could also be the real cause of your issues. Although it is more likely, just due to the work already done, to be a Carb issue.

[BluesHwy66]

Thanks 93. I did get a copy of the service manual, but whereas I was hoping to avoid a hassle up front, I opted for the shop. Lesson learned, eh? And I totally agree with the point that I will know the bike better that anyone as time goes on. But unfortunately I do have space limitations (apt, w/ no garage - so projects are off-street savvy). So if that offer for the garage space is still open... ; )

And I have to admit, this forum has been a wellspring of info which has helped me understand the bike as well as I do so I have at least a working dialogue with the shop to narrow down the factors giving it a hard time. So many thanks to all for sharing the successes and struggles of all projects, big or small.

Hopefully all goes well for the next phase of the work.

-Cheers

[93gc40]

Originally Posted by BluesHwy66

Thanks 93. I did get a copy of the service manual, but whereas I was hoping to avoid a hassle up front, I opted for the shop. Lesson learned, eh? And I totally agree with the point that I will know the bike better that anyone as time goes on. But unfortunately I do have space limitations (apt, w/ no garage - so projects are off-street savvy). So if that offer for the garage space is still open... ; )

And I have to admit, this forum has been a wellspring of info which has helped me understand the bike as well as I do so I have at least a working dialogue with the shop to narrow down the factors giving it a hard time. So many thanks to all for sharing the successes and struggles of all projects, big or small.

Hopefully all goes well for the next phase of the work.

-Cheers

You have a ground floor apartment??? Just sayin........ Ask my wife about the VW motor being rebuilt on top of her 2 week old GLASS topped dinning table. Or the many time she found Carbs and other items in the dishwasher or bathtub or boing away on the stove. Bearings in the freezer or oven.

Don't miss-understand. I HATE getting my hands greasy. But I am also not rich enough to pay for what is technically Normal routine maintenance and repairs. I have my limits as to what I will DIY. Thats when I go looking for someone, who can help. That old man down the street with the Wing or that HD rider. HD riders that really ride, also tend to turn their own wrenches.

[gdb069]

Five hours is a bit much for carb clean and dynojet kit. I think the original quote of 2 hours is more like it but if the compromise was more than 3 hours thats a bit much. Call Honda and ask them for a fixed quote and you will know the local cost. As far as who does the work I know lots of people who never touch their bike: all done by the shop and for them that probably best. Everyone has different skill levels/workshop/tools etc so don't be pushed into doing your own work.

Personally I would make an appointment; tell service manager you can leave the bike one day only and take the bike back to the guys who did the initial work.

Did you buy the dynojet or did the shop supply it? Maybe the bike was waiting for the kit to arrive?

G,