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'88 Honda Shadow 1100 won't start

6K views 39 replies 12 participants last post by  BnTfam 
#1 ·
first off please excuse my ignorance in terms if I call or say something the wrong name... still learning these things.

So I bought this bike used from someone in my riding club and it had a few issues but the guy fixed those over the weekend then rode it over to my place so I didn't have to ride in the rain. everything sounds and looks fine at this point.

Few days later I go to start it to ride to my college class and it cranks but doesn't start... i tried and tried and tried till the battery didn't have enough charge to even crank... yeah stupid i know but that's the past. put battery on charger. week later i try again and it starts just fine, works for 3 days then back to the problem I had at first, so put battery on charger and try again the next day... it works... to make a longer story short it does this off and on till last week when it wouldn't start at all and then solenoid went out on me (I think... I push the starter button and nothing happens... well the lights dim a little but that's it and if I hold starter button I can jump the circuit with a screw driver but still won't start).

So today I decided to put my grease monkey hat on and se what I could do... checked the spark plugs, little bit dirty but fine otherwise. cleaned them off before re installing. battery *was* full charged but it's also not dead yet. tank has gas, not a lot but enough i can hear it slosh around when i shake bike, checked pet ****, kill switch is set to on. if you can name an idiot thing to check for I probably already did it.... 98% chance. my bike doesn't have any of the safety checks, I have been able to start it with ks down and not holding throttle, however in my riding class I was taught to start in neutral, hold throttle and brake and have ks up... just one of those things they taught us as just in case measure... so I did all that too. I couldn't do it all at once due to having to jump solenoid circuit but like I said it's never been an issue before.

here's an audio file I recorded of what happens when I try to start the bike... you can hear it wants to start but i can't get it to run.... I think the first few seconds is the longest it goes for.
Playing: mc issue.mp3 - picosong

So what would my problem be?

I have had it running before and have ridden it a couple hundred miles since getting it.

Also when it does run and sits idle for too long (like 30 seconds or so) or i'm stuck in rush hour traffic, the pipes turn red hot (as in they belt my boots if i get to close and the pipes are literally glowing red if it's dark out and the one under my right leg starts burning my thigh). this can't be normal, let alone safe, what would cause this?

Last but least, any idea where in San Antonio, TX (preferably) or online I can buy a replacement solenoid for my bike?

I think I covered everything...
 
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#5 ·
Sadly he lives on the other side of TX in Del rio... not exactly a sunday drive. That's why I have come here for help.

It's not like I haven't been trying to do this on my own... Just about read every page of the service manuals he gave me with the bike.
 
#6 ·
So what would my problem be?
You've maybe got electrical issues and carb issues.

First step is to get your battery load tested. Most auto parts stores will do that for free. You start with this because it's impossible to reliably diagnose the charging system with a bad battery.

With a known-good battery, you move on to diagnosing the charging system. You'll need a good multimeter -- $10 to $30 will get you one that's good enough for most anything you'll do on a bike. Go with a digital one if you have the choice. There are charts and videos galore that will tell you how to (a) test your stator and b) test the diodes in your regulator/rectifier. You'll also want to (c) inspect all electrical connections you can to ensure they are clean and solid.

If you get through all of that without finding a problem you've still might have the infamous start-switch failure and the 3-yellow wires. There are plenty of threads here on them.

Working through carb issues without a shop manual is not the greatest idea. I recommend ONLY the genuine Honda service manuals, available new from Helm, Inc. (Note that they've screwed up their pulldown menus in the latest webpage update so you might not be able to navigate to yours. I can't get to mine.) eBay is also a possible source.

Based on the audio clip you posted, I've be concerned about idle speed and air/fuel mixture settings.
 
#7 ·
First, you need to take you batter to your local parts store and have it load tested, your batter should show around 12.6-13.2 or so when charged and hold that charge for days on end. You shouldn't have to charge it after more than about 15 mins of riding or so.

On the pipe issue, if they are after market pipes they may be single walled instead of double walled like stocks so they may have some red spots near the first bend. If they are getting red hot further down then you are probably running lean and that's why your not starting too. Easy way to check is if you can get to your mix screws adjust them out 1/2 turn and retry to start your bike. If this fixes it then you need to have them adjusted correctly.
 
#8 ·
Thanks to both of you guys. I'll look at these things tomorrow. I have a multimeter already and after charging the battery I show about 13.x volts. It only goes down about .3-.4 volts when I try to start the bike if that means anything.

I'm 90% sure the solenoid is dead in terms of electrical issues... just the fact that it won;t start unless I jump the circuit with screwdriver. I had the exact same issue in an old car of mine a long time ago. replaced it and no more problems.

I have 2 service manuals.

One is Honda Service Manual published by Honda Motor Co. <-- pretty sure that's as official as you get. The other one is Clymer Honda Service Repair and Maint.

first one is for 87-88 of Honda Shadow VT1100 and the 2nd is 1985-1996.

the first one has been easier for me to understand (better pictures and more explanation of how to do stuff, but it's also less detailed. 2nd one has a lot more info but not as easy to understand what it tells you to do.

I don't know if they are aftermarket pipes or not... next chance I get I'll post a pic of them and if I ever get it running and I still have problems with them getting super hot I'll post a pic of them glowing at night.

I'll look into idle speed, should I be trying to turn it up or down (assuming I figure out how)
 
#9 ·
So been a while since I have messed with the bike thanks to mother nature wanting to rain pretty much every day i have had time to work on it.

I just got done pulling the carbs (took me about 2 hours) and i'm going to start the process of cleaning them in a few minutes... enjoying some air conditioning right now.

I'll report back once I have cleaned the carbs and reinstalled.
 
#10 ·
The pipes should not get red hot. (They sound like straight pipe aftermarket). Starting procedure is FULL Choke NO Throttle.

Check the carbs for drilled out pilot screws (they are sealed from factory) I will bet PO has modified and maybe rejetted so read up on carb and retune.


G.
 
#11 ·
looking at my service manual and the carb it doesn't look like it was modified or drilled out or anything of the sort.

I did find out one of the diaphragms has a small tear in it... not sure what effect that would have on anything though.

I also ended up bring the choke cable needle hen removing it... one side came out no problem, the other I used a bit to much force without knowing any better / lack of patience at that point and it broke. tried to pull out reminents with needle nose and broke some more of it off *sigh*

Also the diaphragms are kind of wrinkled looking... is that normal? far as I could tell they had a good seal (minus the one with a small tear)

Once I get everything cleaned up I'm going to post some pictures of everything as the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words... might help ya'll understand what I'm seeing better than my words are.
 
#12 ·
update for those able to help me.

I put the carbs back in last night and hooked everything back up. drained the gas tank and bought 2 gallons of premium gas (the 91 or 92 whatever... the expensive stuff).

put the gas in today and after a couple trys managed to get her to start.

she'll idle all day long (or at least for more than 6 minutes) but when I try to give it gas (pull the throttle) the first 1/4 or so it will rev up but past that it starts bogging out and dies on me.

An educated guess would tell me it's not getting fuel or enough fuel to the carbs, it's getting enough to start and to idle but not enough to increase rpms.

Once I get it uploaded I'll give you guys an audio clip of what it sounds like now.

oh and solenoid is still bad, jumping the circuit with a screwdriver to get it to start... that's a minor nitpick and don't think it has anything to do with the bike running, just starting.
 
#16 ·
Depends on how bad you need the $20 and if you're willing to replace the other one when it goes bad. If it were my bike I'd do them both.
Good point.... is there anything else that could be the cause of this problem, assuming replacing the diaphragms doesn't help.

just put brand new spark plugs in too, although the old ones didn't look that bad I figured they're cheap, may as well.. paid like $2 ea.

as someone who is on a fixed income (college fin aid only) $20 is a lot of money to me but getting my bike fixed is a big deal as well... tired of taking the bus. San Antonio bus system is the worst I have ever used.
 
#17 ·
Unlikely that a lack of throttle response past 1/4 is caused by anything other than the carbs. Vacuum diaphragms going bad is a common problem we see here all he time. Not many of them tear, but some do. Most folks install them incorrectly. If you know a little about carburetors, vacuum leaks are the enemy of a proper running unit. A tear in a diaphragm is a vacuum leak.
 
#19 ·
Ditto on all of that.

as someone who is on a fixed income (college fin aid only) $20 is a lot of money to me but getting my bike fixed is a big deal as well... tired of taking the bus. San Antonio bus system is the worst I have ever used.
Yet you waste money buying premium fuel and waste time re-installing a carb diaphragm that has a hole in it? I don't mean to be jumping on your back but I just do NOT understand "...they had a good seal (minus the one with a small tear)..." You get that "a small tear" means there is NO seal?

oh and solenoid is still bad, jumping the circuit with a screwdriver to get it to start... that's a minor nitpick and don't think it has anything to do with the bike running, just starting.
Have you checked the starter relay? That's more likely to go bad than the solenoid -- at least on my bike where water can get to it and corrode the connections.
 
#20 ·
It sounds a bit fuel starved between the pipes being red hot and the starting (or rather non-starting sound)
When it is not starting and you pull plugs are they wet? Smell gas?

Also maybe get one of those cheap spark indicator things. They go between the wire and the plug and light up showing you are getting spark. Test on each plug.
+1 or 2 or whatever we are on for battery load test
 
#21 ·
Not sure where the starter relay is... so no, have not checked it. unless i'm calling that the solenoid but I don't think so.

spark plugs are not particularly wet looking.

I ordered the diaphragm today... only 1 because I really can't afford 2 right now. I know it would be best to replace both but I don't have the money to buy 2.

I don't think paying an extra 80 cents for 2 gallons of prem gas is a waste, especially when you're wanting to make sure everything runs well. I don't plan to make that a regular thing, just something I figured I spend 80 cents more on to improve chances of bike working for me again... also bus pass only cost me $15. I don't like taking the bus but it's better than nothing.
 
#23 ·
I don't think paying an extra 80 cents for 2 gallons of prem gas is a waste, especially when you're wanting to make sure everything runs well. I don't plan to make that a regular thing, just something I figured I spend 80 cents more on to improve chances of bike working for me again...
That's because you've fallen for the marketing hype. "Premium" fuel does nothing extra in a low-compression engine that doesn't have extra oxygen sensors and a multi-map engine control unit. (That would be a Shadow -- and probably every gasoline-power engine with carburetors.) Lots of folks are getting fooled.

I ordered the diaphragm today... only 1 because I really can't afford 2 right now. I know it would be best to replace both but I don't have the money to buy 2.
What you're saying is you don't have the money to do it right so you'll gamble on doing it over. Like you did when you first noticed the hole. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you understand the risks you're taking. Most folks find they end up spending more time and money with the approach -- the reason why so many of us warn you off it. (Many, many businesses do the same thing but they bury the extra costs lest the information impinge promotion opportunities for the guy who made the poor decision.)
 
#22 ·
In a pinch diaphragms can be repaired using Gorilla glue and a piece of neoprene surgical gloves as a patch if there's a tear. If you're still having problems with the starter you might want to check the tech sticky on cleaning your starter switch or look through the link below, they can be a problem on these bikes. You want to make sure your not using to high of amperage charger on your battery and make sure the battery connections are clean and tight. When you try starting it make sure to give the starter a rest between tries don't just crank and crank, also just for fun check your kill switch.

Starter Button Maintenance on Valkyries
 
#25 ·
When I get the new diaphragm I'll post pictures of everything to do with the carbs and then ya'll can tell me if anything isn't looking kosher. I don't know what a lot of this stuff is supposed to look like.

as for the spark plugs, they didn't look wet but they did look kind of greesey. I'll look at the new ones I put in and see if they look better or the same.
 
#26 ·
this bike has nothing but a headache for me...

so i got the new diaphragm in the mail (after having it sent to the wrong apartment and having to go to post office and have them call my mail carrier and have him put it in MY mail box.), replaced the old one, and reinstalled the carbs only to have them start leaking fuel... a lot of it.

when i bought the bike the guy i bought it from said it was doing that before and they had thought it was a bad fuel pump but it turned out the float needle was stuck... after i turned off the bike it looks like that's where it's leaking from is one of the float bowls. so now I have to remove the carbs for the 3rd or 4th time now to see how that needs to be fixed.

I swear if it's not one thing it's something else.

also spark plugs were fine.
 
#27 ·
You went your way even tho I/we suggested otherwise. I suggested that you replace the needle valves and seats and carb gaskets while you had the carbs open but you didn't listen claiming money was tight. Now you're going to learn the hard way or will you. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Good luck! >:)
 
#29 ·
It's not that I did it my way by choice... I literally only had the money to buy 1 diaphragm. Like I said before I'm a full time student (actually to the point where I'm looking for a job that can work with my class schedule) and I won't have more money for about a month. In order to fix the issue at hand now I'm going to have to borrow money from family or friends.

So unless you want to pay for my repairs maybe you should be more considerate towards those who don't have all the money in the world to fix every possible thing that could go wrong at once. Because I don't I can only fix what I know is broken at the time. There's no telling that fixing the float needle this time will even solve all the problems.
 
#31 · (Edited)
It's not that I did it my way by choice... I literally only had the money to buy 1 diaphragm. Like I said before I'm a full time student (actually to the point where I'm looking for a job that can work with my class schedule) and I won't have more money for about a month. In order to fix the issue at hand now I'm going to have to borrow money from family or friends.

So unless you want to pay for my repairs maybe you should be more considerate towards those who don't have all the money in the world to fix every possible thing that could go wrong at once. Because I don't I can only fix what I know is broken at the time. There's no telling that fixing the float needle this time will even solve all the problems.
Phox, you need to chill a bit here. We all know and understand what it's like to be broke. Nobody is belittling you for not being able to buy parts. What's going on here is you came here for help. Eagle and Adlowe have forgotten more about motorcycles than I will ever know. They both gave you great advice, and had you heeded them, you wouldn't have any headaches. As eagle said ... take your time, save your money, and do it right the first time. If you can't afford it all now, just save, and get the parts, and then do all the work. You didn't listen, and hurried to slap stuff all back together. Then you came back here and complained that it didn't work. When you ask for advice, ignore the advice, and then complain about the results, it makes those you are asking for help question why they even took the time to help you. Trust me ... you want the guys who know their stuff giving you opinions. But if you're not going to listen, then they will cease taking you serious, and will stop giving you advice.

This forum is full of great folks. We all love to ride and love to help others get their bikes back on the road. We're here to help. Hang in there and keep on working away at this. You'll get it if you keep at it, and listen to the advice you're given. We're all on your side.
 
#32 ·
I'll try to chill out, it's just frustrating when people think i'm ignoring their advice. That's not the case, limited funds limits what I can do. Waiting till I can afford to fix everything at once is also a pain because my apartment complex already tried to get it towed once because my registration was expired, I have yet to get the title transferred because I have to get it inspected first and when I went to go do that bike would not run, so could not get it inspected which means I couldn't register it. So the best I was able to do was move it to a different parking space and cover it to hide plates and anything else to identify it. It has been fine so far but just about every other day I'm looking for that dreaded orange sticker saying they're going to tow it if I don't fix something.

The money I have now has to last me. I just got a new job but can only work when I can borrow family's car so getting my bike running is really important. If I can fix the really important stuff first and get her running that will allow me to make more money and go into preventive mode (replace the other stuff). It almost seems like I'll have my fall semester college fin aid money first though at this point and I'm almost ready to just buy a new bike and see what I can get for a trade in or save this one as a side project to sell to my mother when I get it running again.

I do appreciate the help you guys are offering me.
 
#33 ·
Hey all I just wanted to give you all an update. After what has felt like a very long time I got my college money and decided to have a shop work on. Had to have it towed there though because it wasn't running and I don't own a truck and don't know anyone who does either.

Getting it towed was an interesting experience in it's own. repair shop I called said they would work on it and it's age ('88) wasn't a problem and they recommended a local tow service for motorcycles (really quite interesting how this platform comes out of the bed of the truck, angles then lowers down flat onto the ground, roll your bike onto it into a brace that holds front wheel, then the guy straps everything down secure and puts platform back in truck bed). This service cost me $75, not too bad I figure since I had no other way to get there. I got to shop first cause tow guy got a bit lost on the way (stupid san antonio street system) and started talking about other minor issues I could fix myself but wanted him to know I already knew about. He insisted in order to make the bike ridable he would have to fix all of them, choke cable, solenoid, carbs, etc. I tried explaining all I wanted was carbs fixed everything else I didn't need to worry about or could fix easily on my own (like solenoid). Then he got onto my back tire being a car tire and saying how dangerous that is blah blah blah and that he wouldn't even be able to test ride it because of that making it unsafe... after about 25-30 min of him complaining how much work needs to be done and how he's already backed up he says he doesn't even want to work on it now... son of a... [insert colorful word here]. luckily one of the other guys in the shop said a place couple blocks away would probably work on it. tow guy was still there (hadn't paid him yet, was busy dealing with the jerks at this shop). I asked him if he would have to charge me to take it back home or to other shop, he called his boss, boss told me to call other shop and see if they're open and willing to work on just what i want. I did and they were cool so he had the tow guy take my bike there free of charge (minus the $75 I already owed him). Got to other stop, literally 2 blocks away and the manager / owner whatever was like "yeah if you want us to just fix the carbs then that's cool with us" since he had to remove choke cable anyways he offered to fix that free as long as i paid for part and then said solenoid is only about 15 min labor plus about $40 for part if I wanted him to do that too so I agreed, once less issue for me to deal with. he had no issue with the back tire being a car tire or anything.

He had the issues fixed this past Thursday so I picked it up Friday morning.

Rode it home alright...

Tried to take it to a concert that night and it died on me on the freeway, as if it had no gas. I managed to coast off the freeway and into a brightly lit furniture store parking lot.... with cameras. Called my mother who was going to the show too (Guns 4 roses, tribute band to guns n roses) and she took me there. called the shop up and asked if they had a tow service in house, they did so I got it picked up, that cost me $70 but I gave the guy $80 cause it was his day off and he still helped.

shop got back with me later that day... turns out my stator has bit the dust. I figured as much since it was acting like it had no gas when it died and then wouldn;t start despite having gas. it started fine earlier because it was running on battery, but once battery ran out of juice no more fuel pump power = no more gas in engine = no more power.

Soooo now my bike is in the shop getting that fixed. that's going to run me about another $350, about $140 for part and rest is labor plus an hour for estimate.

More than likely this was the original issue, bad stator hence why if I charged battery it would work then die after a day or two of use. That means the stator was bad before i even bought it... figures. oh well that's in the past, this should fix it for good now though.

I'll try to remember to update ya'll when I get my bike back, hopefully soon.

Also here's a complete list of what was done the first time it was in shop...

Clean & adjust carbs
clean fuel tank
replaced choke cable
replaced solenoid
replaced fuel line and fuel filter
replaced air filter

That bit of labor cost me $245 total for 3.5 hours
parts wise I had:
choke cable: $25
solenoid: $40
Air filter: $37 (hard to believe how expensive an air filter is)
fuel filter: $6
fuel line: $3

grand total with tax for parts and 3.5 hours labor was $365.57

considering all that was done I don't think that was bad. sadly I'm gonna end up paying the same just about for stator and that's 1 part (I think)... but it's 2 hour labor too plus 1 hour for diagnostic to find out it was stator.

as I hear a bike pass outside my bedroom window I miss mine so much right now. let us hope I get her back soon and in fully functional condition. They told me I need to replace battery soon but at this time it's not required yet, but soon.
 
#35 ·
They told me I need to replace battery soon but at this time it's not required yet, but soon.
Soon can be like right now or take your bets. Start saving you limited $'s after all you've been through. I suggest checking out BatteryStuff.com and the Scorpion AGM battery.
YTZ14S Battery | Scorpion 12 Volt Motorcycle Batteries
That's the one I replaced my "T" lead/acid battery and couldn't be happier with my decision. ;)
 
#34 ·
Glad you going to get it running. Not sure what your major is but maybe you should consider becoming a Motorcycle mechanic after all you've been through.
 
#37 ·
I have my baby back as of the day before yesterday!! and she's running pretty darn good. starts up quick without any problem and runs fine.

shop did say I will need to replace the float bowl gaskets soon but they know I know how to pull carbs and can do that on my own (you gotta respect a shop that doesn't try to prevent you from doing your own work).

I also need to fix speedometer system, not sure yet if it's cable or something else but until I get it fixed I have no speedometer, odometer or tripometer. the trip one is my biggest deal cause that's my gas gauge! gonna have to keep an eye on gas some other way (look in the tank i guess?)

battery needs to be replaced but it'll work for now

I also need a new crimp for my left rear blinker wire, but that's minor for now... not like anyone else uses blinkers or acknowledges them anyways in san antonio. better off to just use hand signals and turn my head to look.

I'm also looking for new battery terminal covers because mine are missing and I don't want a short or anything.

So yeah all small stuff now.

the last shop trip ended up costing me 2x as much quoted because not only was stator bad but so was rectifier... so instead of it being about $350 it was $601. this bike has been very expensive. Oh and I got title transfer done today, that cost me another $200.
 
#38 ·
Glad to hear you got the major issues fixed and can ride and found a shop that understands and works with you! Your speedo cable issue could be as easy as lubing the cable.
 
#39 ·
I'm really hopping it's something stupid simple like that but I have my doubts. When I roll the bike with engine off there's a clicking noise coming from the front wheel area, I only noticed it when I had bike towed the first time when we were rolling it over to truck, when I got bike back it was still doing that and that's when I found out speedo not working. So I have my doubts it just needs to be lubed but we'll see. Going to try to work on some of these things tomorrow afternoon. Would do it in morning while it's cooler but I'm installing smoke alarms with local red cross chapter.
 
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