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oil in antifreeze

4K views 23 replies 7 participants last post by  swifty2014 
#1 ·
I bought a bike (86 shadow 500) the previous owner didn't ride very often. The tires looked new, but front was 13 years old and rear was 16 years old. I checked the fluids and oil was a little low, so I topped it off. Radiator and overflow bottle were empty. Bottle was cracked. Bought a new bottle and rigged it up to work until I could get all my tools together to get it changed out properly. and filled up the radiator. 2 blocks down the road the bottle had about an inch of oily gassy smelling antifreeze fluid, bike died and will not run. It will crank and act like it wants to start, but dies as soon as I let go the starter button.
My question is... could this be a bad water pump that cooked the seals bad enough to let the water and oil mix, or should I go ahead and start engine shopping?
I was riding for about a week with no problems before I added fluid and it died. I added fluid when the engine was completely cold. The bike has 30,000 miles on it.
 
#2 ·
Did you check the carbs? With the smell of gas in the oil and the additional issue of coolant in the mix you could have a couple of issues.

The carbs could have a stuck float or the float needle / pin is not seating all the way and gas is making its way down into the cylinders and seeping into the crankcase.
Then you have to find out how the oil and coolant are getting together.

Don't know what level wrench you are but you could clean up what most home wrenchers could clean up and get to the root of the problems....then determine if it's engine repair or purchase.

Good luck with it and post your findings....I'm interested in how this turns out for you.
 
#3 ·
Check the plugs for coolant first. Does it blow smoke when it runs or tries to start? Blue or white ? Or black from excess fuel?
If you fill the radiator and with the cap off, try to crank it and see if it bubbles in the filler neck.
You could do a compression test also.
 
#4 ·
No smoke when it tries to run. Havent pulled the plugs yet. Been a busy rainy day. I used to work on old volkswagons for a hobby but havent done much more than routine maintenence on anything watercooled. I am enrolled in college for automotive mechanics, but class hasnt started yet. Im pretty good and figuring out and fixing things but dont have much experience and never on motorcycles.
I did try checking the oil while the engine was running and exaust gasses came out the hole where the dipstick unscrews. Is that normal for motorcycles? It seemed like not a good thing. It will still crank and sounds like it wants to run. Will idle at about 500 rpm maybe 1.5-3 seconds and dies. Or dies immediately if i give it some throttle.
I have the shop manual and plan on reading before I start just tearing things apart.

There doesnt seem to be any gas or water in the oil, just something black and nasty in the coolant that made it into the overflow bottle. Am draining fluids and checking plugs saturday and will see what I have to work with before i start getting ready to remove the engine if i in fact need to.
I am tempted to order a terrible looking ebay engine the guy claims runs to get back on the road and give me nice shiny new looking dead engine a good once over and see what needs to be done to rebuild it or whatever it needs.
This is my only transportation besides a bicycle with an 80cc engine kit on it so getting on the road quickly is a priority
 
#5 ·
Are you sure it's oil in the coolant? If the bike sat for a period with the coolant empty, there could be gunk in the system. Your running issues sound like carb issues.
 
#7 ·
Well, carbs are funny things, all it takes is one speck of dirt to mess them up. I could be wrong, it's happened many times before, I was just offering a suggestion.
 
#8 ·
Don't check the oil with the engine running !!! The normal crankcase pressure will blow oil all over the place usually. Normal to have a lot of activity in there while running from the crank hitting the oil and gears spinning, etc. Check it on the center stand or holding it straight up engine off.

You said it ran good for a week, then after adding coolant to the radiator it all went down hill. Could it have been low on coolant, and when you filled it, the coolant then was able to get past a bad gasket and into the cylinders??? HMMMM!
You need to see if it is getting into the cylinders by looking at the plugs They are your feed back for what is going on in the engine. If it is too rich, or lean, or oily, etc. the plugs tell the story.
Fill the radiator and try to start it and then pull the plugs.
 
#9 ·
I hope its just bad seals those are cheap and available online. Everywhere i looked for a water pump lists it as an obsolete part. Im wondering if the previous owner knew about the water pump issue and dumped the bike while it still ran.
Waiting for the land lady to leave so I can go do some tinkering.
 
#10 ·
If it was low on coolant for a while the seals could have dried out which might cause some leakage. Did you flush the radiator? All kinds of nasty stuff could have been in there. I don't believe your running issues are connect to the coolant. Use the KISS principle, don't start just changing out parts. Work on getting it running again. Fuel, Air, Spark, one of those has to be your problem.
 
#11 ·
Put it up on the stand, drained the coolant in the radiator. The brand new coolant was black and oily. Checked the oil I just filled to the full mark and its down to the low mark. Opened the drain plug and there is no water in the oil. I have the wrong size spark plug socket. Walking to the local auto parts store.
 

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#12 ·
Checked the plugs. They are properly gapped, dry and healthy looking. Got it adjusted to where it will start and idle. Dont want to ride it around until I figure out why/how oil is getting into the coolant. I am leaning towards bad water pump seals/gaskets? On a car I would think head gasket, but there is no water in the oil. Just oil in the water. Tgouroughly confused.
Im beginning to think my bike is alive and died on me to let me know I have a problem to fix because I didnt really do anything and now she sounds as good as she ever did.
I park outside and someone keeps messing with my petcock valve and maybe they messed with the carb adjustment knob?
 
#13 ·
I wouldn't worry about gasses coming out of the crank case when you take the cap off. There's normally a lot of pressure changes in there due to heat and piston movement. That's why engines have a PCV (Positive Crank-Case Valve) to relieve the pressure.

Generally, when carburated engines die when you give them throttle, it's usually a fuel issue. Either the carb isn't getting fuel (is the valve off?), its not adjusted correctly, or the idle jets are clogged. It also happens when you increase flow by changing air filter/exhaust setups, and need to adjust/change jets. It sounds like maybe you (or someone else) turned the valve off, and maybe the floats became empty. It'll run for a while then lean out and die.

The funny thing about head gaskets, is that they like to act normal until things heat up. I wouldn't ever rule out a head gasket until you've ran it long enough to get it up to normal operating temperature for at least 5 minutes.

I would recommend starting it up with the radiator cap off, let it warm up and idle for a while, then give it a good rev. A little bit of coolant might overflow in a healthy engine, but if it sprays out, you've got a compression leak, most likely in the heads. If that seems fine, shut it off, wait about 10 minutes, then start it up and give it a rev again. If it still seems good, then shut it off, wait a little bit, and inspect the plugs.

I don't know about the water pump... I'm not really sure how they are configured on motorcycles. Never had to mess with one. If it doesn't seem like a head gasket, then start looking there.
 
#14 ·
That coolant is pretty ugly but maybe just very old and neglected. Old coolant can have a slight oily sheen to it when you drain it. Especially if it is 20 yeas old!
Why not drain all you can and fill with just water and run it a bit then drain it a few more times to see how it cleans up and see if it is blowing through a gasket. then if it is getting cleaner put coolant back in.
If someone was messing with your carb knob it would only change the idle speed not mixture.
 
#15 ·
Filled up the radiator all the way and ran it with the top off the radiator. At around 4k rpm water would start pouring out kinda steady below that no bubbles or anything like that at lower rpms. Some gurgling noises. Drained the water again and it was black and nasty with little tiny black floaties in the water. Maybe not as black as yesterday? Going to cook dinner and wait for the bike to cool all the way down and add water again. Run it a little while and see what it looks like then.
 
#17 ·
That doesn't sound like the tell tale headgasket gone to hell scenario to me... I would call that inconclusive.

It's been quite a while since I've seen it, but if I remember correctly, if you mix the old style green anti-freeze with the newer dex-cool stuff, it makes an ugly brown sludgy kinda substance. Maybe that's what you are seeing? Or maybe the previous owner put oil in there by mistake?
 
#19 · (Edited)
Now it will crank up and die and crank up and die and idle for a few seconds and die. And crank and crank and nothing. Drained the water out after maybe a total of a minute running and it looks like this. I will take the bottle to my mechanic and ask him what itll take to look into it. I believe i am in over my head. Maybe head gasket? Maybe water pump gaskets? It will start up and no water is getting into the oil so I am hoping the engine is salvageable and within my price range to fix.
 

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#20 ·
I've been told it's not oil in the water... it's exhaust gasses. Blown head gasket or cracked head. Time to learn how to work on engines, as I've been told it will cost more to pay a mechanic to fix than the bike is worth. Also been advised to look into parting it out and buying an aircooled bike.
 
#21 ·
If you want to try one more thing before that, you can try a leak down test. It will show if compression is leaking and from where. But you need an air compressor to make it work.

Cylinder Leak-Down Tester
 
#22 ·
I've been told it's not oil in the water... it's exhaust gasses. Blown head gasket or cracked head.
That's what I've been suspecting all along. The test swifty linked is how you find out. Blown head gasket is not too bad. Cracked head probably means visiting salvage yards.

Time to learn how to work on engines, as I've been told it will cost more to pay a mechanic to fix than the bike is worth.
Not that tough. Hardest part is getting it out of the frame. Kind of a long-term project, though. I'd hate to start it during riding season.

Also been advised to look into parting it out...
Always an option but one I would do my best to avoid. But I like working on engines.

...and buying an aircooled bike.
Do NOT listen to the guy who gave that advice. Sounds like a hardley fool. Air-cooled is NOT inherently better; comes with a rasher of problems all its own. Same goes for two-stroke engines -- though pound-for-pound they are better. (That's why you find them in chainsaws and weed whackers.)

Buy the bike you like (or even better, love), doing everything you can to be sure you know what you're getting, then deal with what you have. Do NOT fixate on technology then take whatever bike is wrapped around it. That is the road to disappointment.
 
#24 ·
You might be able to rent one of those leak down testers but they require air pressure from a compressor.
 
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