Fuelology

[dernp]

Originally Posted by cl65ame

Ultramar in the US and Shell in canada sell Ethanol free fuel. You must buy the most expensive gas to get it but it is available. In canada the 87 at Shell is 10% mid grade is 5% and V-Power is 0%. FWIW my 98T does not see a difference in performance or mileage.

For Canadian consumers, all Shell fuels are 100% ethanol free. Not just high test.

[rorichts]

Originally Posted by TxShadow49

If your engine is not built for ethanol it is the devil. Rather than Avgas you should probably just go down to the nearest race shop and buy VP unleaded.
As to E-10 and E-15, I have posted this before, but for all practical purposes it doesn't exist. A guy I know that sells and rents equipment such as generators, construction, landscaping, etc. has tested various stations fuel for ethanol content in the are. The lowest e10 he found was about 18% and the highest was 23. I'm not a chemist so I don't know why this happens, mixing, stirring, evaporation water infiltration, whatever, but because of all the problems he has had on repairs and warranty issues, he now provides his customers with paperwork that states that any ethanol use will void his warranties. Kind of sucks because all stations in our region are E-something.
As for additives, Lucas Oil has a good ethanol additive also.

May I suggest that it is about more profits for the oil companies. They can buy ethanol or in some cases now own ethanol producing facilities cheaper than the cost of the gas. By adding more ethanol they increase the profit margin, the E-10 is a number set by law as minimum, there is nothing that says that the oil companies can't add more than the 10%.

As for my 98 Shadow Aero I found and increase in performance by using the 91 as opposed to the 87 ethanol free. Seeing less vibration, smoother starts, increase in performance and stall outs stopped happening.
Would like to use a less expensive fuel may consider trying an additive to experiment a little.

[TxShadow49]

Oil companies make more profit on non-ethanol gas. Farmers make more profit off of ethanol gas. There is no legislation requiring ethanol at all. There is legislation that defines ethanol fuels as e-10, e15, and e85. E 10 can have no more than 10% ethanol, E-15 can have no more than 15% ethanol, E85 can have no less than 85% ethanol. The legislation that causes gas companies to make ethanol at all, is merely the EPA setting arbitrary standards of emissions that are hard to meet with pure gasoline fuel as opposed to ethanol enhanced fuel. That is why your mileage goes to crap in the summer. Its not the heat, its the fact they change the formulas seasonally to meet EPA standards. If you don't like what you are paying for fuel don't blame the oil companies. Blame congress, the EPA, and the IRS. between 1/3 and 1/2 of the cost of a gallon of fuel are taxes and regulatory issues. Every business needs to make a profit to stay in business. Making 7% profit is not outlandish. Thats about what oil companies make.

[RichardL]

Originally Posted by rorichts

May I suggest that it is about more profits for the oil companies. They can buy ethanol or in some cases now own ethanol producing facilities cheaper than the cost of the gas. By adding more ethanol they increase the profit margin, the E-10 is a number set by law as minimum, there is nothing that says that the oil companies can't add more than the 10%.

As for my 98 Shadow Aero I found and increase in performance by using the 91 as opposed to the 87 ethanol free. Seeing less vibration, smoother starts, increase in performance and stall outs stopped happening.
Would like to use a less expensive fuel may consider trying an additive to experiment a little.

Originally Posted by TxShadow49

Oil companies make more profit on non-ethanol gas. Farmers make more profit off of ethanol gas. There is no legislation requiring ethanol at all. There is legislation that defines ethanol fuels as e-10, e15, and e85. E 10 can have no more than 10% ethanol, E-15 can have no more than 15% ethanol, E85 can have no less than 85% ethanol. The legislation that causes gas companies to make ethanol at all, is merely the EPA setting arbitrary standards of emissions that are hard to meet with pure gasoline fuel as opposed to ethanol enhanced fuel. That is why your mileage goes to crap in the summer. Its not the heat, its the fact they change the formulas seasonally to meet EPA standards. If you don't like what you are paying for fuel don't blame the oil companies. Blame congress, the EPA, and the IRS. between 1/3 and 1/2 of the cost of a gallon of fuel are taxes and regulatory issues. Every business needs to make a profit to stay in business. Making 7% profit is not outlandish. Thats about what oil companies make.

While this is going off topic...... Ethonal is Federaly subsidized, I will let each individual figure out for themselves what that means. The short version of the story is if the government wasn't throwing money at the "Green" fuel option no one would have touched it.

[RichardL]

Found an intersting site that talks about fuel additives and ethanol.
Is your gas additive safe with E10 fuel?

E10 Ethanol: Recommended engine precautions

As noted many fuel additives including SeaFoam contain alcohal as a major component. So does it make sense to add even more alcohal?

I don't have the answers but it would seem that many of the suggested additives on this site may actually make the problem worse.

[shdwboy11]

I have a 1986 honda shadow vt700 and on my driveshaft it says to use no lower than 91 octane. So ive ben running 93 premium but on deceleration i get a pop here and there, which means unburnt fuel so maybe i should try 89?

[blueiedgod]

Ehtanol actually has higher octane rating than gasoline it self. So, it is not out of the question that fuel blenders may use more ethanol in higher octane fuels than in lower octane fuels, and do so very inexpensively.

[cza888]

Just called my local shell station today, asked if all their fuels included ethanol, I was told (yes), all of them do...also, did some more calling around and found that at my local Canadian Tire Gas bar, their premium grade is 100% gasoline. Hope this helps.

[Czech]

Originally Posted by cza888

Just called my local shell station today, asked if all their fuels included ethanol, I was told (yes), all of them do...also, did some more calling around and found that at my local Canadian Tire Gas bar, their premium grade is 100% gasoline. Hope this helps.

thanx a lot. I believe everybody's premium grade here in Canada is ethanol free. That's why you pay more for it. Not so sure about the mid-range thou.
Cheers

[sunsetFisherman]

One interesting thing about ethanol fuels, and is kind of the other side of the spectrum from what most of you seem to be thinking, is that the molecular structure of ethanol contains oxygen, so basically you're adding more fuel AND air to the gas tank which means more power without modifying an intake. This is of course subjective to a fuel/engine system that is specifically designed for that purpose. There is a legit reason many dragsters run on pure alcohol, the key is tuning the machine, or in our case starting with a machine that is capable of being tuned for ethanol cut fuels.