How much do valve clearnaces usally have to be adjusted? - Honda Shadow Forums : Shadow Motorcycle Forum

etep · 09-26-2009, 11:22 PM

My bike has 51,000 miles on it now. I have had the dealer do all scheduled service work until now. The Valve adjustment was done by the dealer when I took it in for the full service with about 44K on it. I am laid off so I have more time, tools and equipment than money now so I did the last oil change myself at 48K. Had trouble with spark knock in the ountains last weekend and hearing a strange rattling after warm up now. It's due for another valve adjustment at 52K so I opened it up today to find the front cylinder exhaust valve clearance, cold, at TDC, less than my smallest feeler gauge blade of .005". Manual says the exhaust valve clearance should be .008".

My question is, is this normal to have a clearance of less than half of the spec at the 8,000 miles from the last adjustment? I was expecting maybe .001 or .002" difference, not .003 or .004" Hope they have not been skipping adjustments and charging me for them anyway. That would really suck.

Just wondering?

Thanks,
Pete

h13man · 09-26-2009, 11:56 PM

You might let everybody know what your bike is first.

etep · 09-27-2009, 01:19 AM

Sorry, good point!

It's a 2004 Honda Shadow VLX 600 cc
(583 cc) V twin, 4 speed.

qwertydude · 09-27-2009, 01:58 AM

Unless you were redlining the bike the whole time the clearance shouldn't tighten that much, though don't the valves generally loosen on these screw and nut valve adjusters?

smith101 · 09-27-2009, 05:42 AM

The valves actually tighten with time and milage,but seem to do this early on.The first valve adjustment usually sees that they are tighter than specs,but slows down as parts wear in and get comfortable.After the first adjustment ,it is not uncommon to see that all (or most) valves are within spec.

litnin · 09-27-2009, 07:40 AM

No, valves to not generally loosen over time, they get tighter.

The valve seat and the valve itself wears from slamming closed.
As they wear, the valve goes up in the seat more, which takes up
clearance between the rocker arm and the valve tip.

Initial valve check should be done at the 600 mile checkup.

After that, they should be checked every 15,000 miles.

etep · 09-27-2009, 10:29 AM

Thanks for the insight. I was always under the impression that first valve adjustment was the most critical. I have taken it in for all services each 4K as recommended. The manual says "Check valve clearances" every 8K but a friend of mine called A shop about that and they said they would not actually open his and use a feeler gauge on them unless it "sounded" like it needed it. Not sure if he was talking about the same shop or not.

This dealer has always "charged" me for the "check" so I hope they have been really checking. Seeing a .003+ difference now at 51K make me wonder if they have really been checking at least as far as that valve.
This valve is the front cylinder exhaust value and the most difficult to reach. The others will be much easier so it will be interesting to see if they are closer to spec maybe indicating they have been check and/or adjusted more often.

I was hearing a "rattling" noise like a loose bolt at about 2500 PRMs after it warms up. Kind of wondering if maybe a cam shaft or rocker arm component might be loose or something. Any ideas if anything in there loose might cause the gap to close up like that. Seams a loose bolt or component would make the clearance open instead. Not sure what to look for at this point for such a noise so I thought I would adjust all the valves and run it again and if the noise is still happening tear it down further to investigate. Funny it only makes the rattling sound after warm up. Of coarse with the exhaust valve not having proper clearance I understand that can make that cylinder run hot which it seams to be doing so maybe that expansion is allowing something, maybe even the exhaust valve or valve guides to rattle. Or maybe the valve not seating and the stem against the rocker arm without any clearance might produce a similar sound????

Thanks for your help here and I will post any additional finding I might discover.

litnin · 09-27-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etep

I was hearing a "rattling" noise like a loose bolt at about 2500 PRMs after it warms up. Kind of wondering if maybe a cam shaft or rocker arm component might be loose or something. Any ideas if anything in there loose might cause the gap to close up like that. Seams a loose bolt or component would make the clearance open instead. Not sure what to look for at this point for such a noise so I thought I would adjust all the valves and run it again and if the noise is still happening tear it down further to investigate. Funny it only makes the rattling sound after warm up. Of coarse with the exhaust valve not having proper clearance I understand that can make that cylinder run hot which it seams to be doing so maybe that expansion is allowing something, maybe even the exhaust valve or valve guides to rattle. Or maybe the valve not seating and the stem against the rocker arm without any clearance might produce a similar sound????
discover.

If you are hearing it after it warms up, it's probably not the valves.
Also, are you checking the valve lash cold or after riding?
Valve lash has to be checked when the engine is stone cold. No heat at all.
If there is any heat in the engine, it will cause false readings.
Heat causes expansion and will throw your checks off.
The clearances decrease when you get hot.

If your noise appears once warm, I'd suggest looking more towards
your timing chain tensioner or your primary drive gear.

etep · 09-28-2009, 12:54 AM

Yes, it's stone cold. I ran it Friday at lunch and put it on the lift. Ran the gas out of the carb by turning off the gas valve and running it till it died out. It sat about 24 hours before I checked the valve clearance.

Thanks for the tip about the timing chain tensioner etc, Will do!

Hope to work on in more tomorrow.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/...7b508514_b.jpg

etep · 09-29-2009, 11:29 AM

OK, That was a bust!
"adjusted" all the valves. Put it all back together and started it and it sounds like a tractor. This can not be right. Lots of valve noise especially at the front cylinder exhaust valve. Tap , tap , tap it goes. That was the one that had almost no valve clearance cold at TDC , Smaller than my .005 blade and I adjusted it to .008" like the manual said.

Guess I need to try again.

Any tips here anyone? (other than take it to the shop)

Are the manual specs just for a new valve install or something?

Thanks,
Pete

09-26-2009, 11:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
etep Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central North Carolina Posts: 23	How much do valve clearnaces usally have to be adjusted? My bike has 51,000 miles on it now. I have had the dealer do all scheduled service work until now. The Valve adjustment was done by the dealer when I took it in for the full service with about 44K on it. I am laid off so I have more time, tools and equipment than money now so I did the last oil change myself at 48K. Had trouble with spark knock in the ountains last weekend and hearing a strange rattling after warm up now. It's due for another valve adjustment at 52K so I opened it up today to find the front cylinder exhaust valve clearance, cold, at TDC, less than my smallest feeler gauge blade of .005". Manual says the exhaust valve clearance should be .008". My question is, is this normal to have a clearance of less than half of the spec at the 8,000 miles from the last adjustment? I was expecting maybe .001 or .002" difference, not .003 or .004" Hope they have not been skipping adjustments and charging me for them anyway. That would really suck. Just wondering? Thanks, Pete

09-26-2009, 11:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
h13man Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 3,808	You might let everybody know what your bike is first. __________________ 06' 1100 Spirit 71' CL 100 99' Valkyrie Ride Bell by "Yoman"

09-27-2009, 01:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
etep Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central North Carolina Posts: 23	It's a 2004 Honda Shadow VLX Sorry, good point! It's a 2004 Honda Shadow VLX 600 cc (583 cc) V twin, 4 speed.

09-27-2009, 07:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
litnin Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, GA Posts: 7,357	No, valves to not generally loosen over time, they get tighter. The valve seat and the valve itself wears from slamming closed. As they wear, the valve goes up in the seat more, which takes up clearance between the rocker arm and the valve tip. Initial valve check should be done at the 600 mile checkup. After that, they should be checked every 15,000 miles. __________________ Gasoline is for washing parts, Alcohol is for drinking... NITRO is for racing!

09-27-2009, 10:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
etep Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central North Carolina Posts: 23	Could something else have worked loose to make the gap close Thanks for the insight. I was always under the impression that first valve adjustment was the most critical. I have taken it in for all services each 4K as recommended. The manual says "Check valve clearances" every 8K but a friend of mine called A shop about that and they said they would not actually open his and use a feeler gauge on them unless it "sounded" like it needed it. Not sure if he was talking about the same shop or not. This dealer has always "charged" me for the "check" so I hope they have been really checking. Seeing a .003+ difference now at 51K make me wonder if they have really been checking at least as far as that valve. This valve is the front cylinder exhaust value and the most difficult to reach. The others will be much easier so it will be interesting to see if they are closer to spec maybe indicating they have been check and/or adjusted more often. I was hearing a "rattling" noise like a loose bolt at about 2500 PRMs after it warms up. Kind of wondering if maybe a cam shaft or rocker arm component might be loose or something. Any ideas if anything in there loose might cause the gap to close up like that. Seams a loose bolt or component would make the clearance open instead. Not sure what to look for at this point for such a noise so I thought I would adjust all the valves and run it again and if the noise is still happening tear it down further to investigate. Funny it only makes the rattling sound after warm up. Of coarse with the exhaust valve not having proper clearance I understand that can make that cylinder run hot which it seams to be doing so maybe that expansion is allowing something, maybe even the exhaust valve or valve guides to rattle. Or maybe the valve not seating and the stem against the rocker arm without any clearance might produce a similar sound???? Thanks for your help here and I will post any additional finding I might discover.

09-27-2009, 01:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
qwertydude Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 201	Unless you were redlining the bike the whole time the clearance shouldn't tighten that much, though don't the valves generally loosen on these screw and nut valve adjusters?

09-27-2009, 05:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
smith101 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Owen Sound,Ontario Posts: 7	The valves actually tighten with time and milage,but seem to do this early on.The first valve adjustment usually sees that they are tighter than specs,but slows down as parts wear in and get comfortable.After the first adjustment ,it is not uncommon to see that all (or most) valves are within spec.

09-28-2009, 12:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
etep Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central North Carolina Posts: 23	Yes, it's stone cold. Yes, it's stone cold. I ran it Friday at lunch and put it on the lift. Ran the gas out of the carb by turning off the gas valve and running it till it died out. It sat about 24 hours before I checked the valve clearance. Thanks for the tip about the timing chain tensioner etc, Will do! Hope to work on in more tomorrow. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/...7b508514_b.jpg

09-29-2009, 11:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
etep Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Central North Carolina Posts: 23	Guess I have to try again OK, That was a bust! "adjusted" all the valves. Put it all back together and started it and it sounds like a tractor. This can not be right. Lots of valve noise especially at the front cylinder exhaust valve. Tap , tap , tap it goes. That was the one that had almost no valve clearance cold at TDC , Smaller than my .005 blade and I adjusted it to .008" like the manual said. Guess I need to try again. Any tips here anyone? (other than take it to the shop) Are the manual specs just for a new valve install or something? Thanks, Pete

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