MSF courses. Any eye openers?

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'll admit, part of my apprehension about the basic course is having to pay rent for, and ride a much smaller bike than what I am used to.

Not so much because I have any disdain for a smaller machine so much as I might like how nimble they are as to end up buying one for giggles.

One of the courses I am most interested in is held by a local police department and tought by the same staff that does the rider training for the police unit. I don't expect the course to be identical to what the moto-patrolers get but I have read that it is pretty dern close.

[adlowe]

Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer

II know the expense covers bike rental of a smaller machine.

The Basic Rider course is only $25 here in Michigan. Can't beat that!

Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer

I'd like to hear from anyone who took the course "late" in their riding life. Which course was taken, and if there were any eye openers received as a result.

Took the Basic class when I got back into riding after 20+ years off, mostly because it was a very inexpensive way to get most of the way to an endorsement. (Passing the BRC covers the riding portion here in MI but you still have to take the written.) I did learn some things that I never knew -- but I had NEVER had any proficient rider education.

Took the Advanced class several years later because my wife wanted to take it but didn't want to go alone. I did learn some things -- mostly because the instructors were able to watch me and offer specific instruction. Smaller class.


The only "eye opener" was that some folks who do not belong on bikes are out there riding every day. My Advanced included a guy in his 60s who had wrecked 6 bikes over 30 - 40 years, including 1 earlier that year. His riding was awful and his reactions just about the opposite of what a good rider should do. Almost every time. I made sure there was plenty of opportunity to watch him by keeping my bike off the course whenever he was out there. Scary bad.

[GilaMinumBeer]

Originally Posted by adlowe

The Basic Rider course is only $25 here in Michigan. Can't beat that!

Ugg. One place here offers the Basic for $185 with bike included and no opt out. Another in a town nearby offers the basic for $100 with an included discount for already having a motorcycle endorsement.

And the courses offered by DOT and OHP are free but no more are being offered until Spring.

[ZackDaniels]

How long have you been riding? At $200 for just the basic it might be worthwhile to just read this book:

Amazon.com: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (0731360405364): David L. Hough: Books

Amazon.com: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (0731360405364): David L. Hough: Books

Then pony up and go straight to the Experienced Rider Course or the above mentioned Advanced Rider Clinic.

[adlowe]

Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer

Ugg. One place here offers the Basic for $185 with bike included and no opt out. Another in a town nearby offers the basic for $100 with an included discount for already having a motorcycle endorsement.

$25 with the bike included at several community colleges throughout the state. Sign-up is through the CC. Most classes have some "extra" students show up the first night hoping to be able to slide into a slot booked by a no-show. Later in the summer, the classes REALLY get filled up -- with a lot of folks who flunked earlier trying again. (My wife was one of those. She dropped the bike during the ride testing first time, an instant failure.) I don't think any classes are offered after September due to weather.

Some HD dealers also offer the class. Their prices are in the $200 range. I know one guy who took that class because he couldn't wait for the one scheduled at the nearby community college. He was from another state, in the area to visit his mother and got the chance to ride a bike on a weekend 500-mile trip. I don't know what he did about license and endorsement because he went back home a month later.

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

How long have you been riding? At $200 for just the basic it might be worthwhile to just read this book: Amazon.com: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (0731360405364): David L. Hough: Books

Then pony up and go straight to the Experienced Rider Course or the above mentioned Advanced Rider Clinic.

He said he's been reading Hough -- but did not specify whether it was that one or

this one

this one

. (I have both and re-read them just about every winter.)

Another option is Lee Park's Total Control. Friends have recommended it. (I've got Lee's book, too.) They stopped offering classes in Michigan the year I decided to take it. Looks like they won't be here next year, either. Maybe I'll plan a road trip around taking the class.

Ride Like A Pro is another option. They have classes outside Florida but Jerry Palladino is NOT the instructor. The "Training Locations" link will get you to the sites for the other instructors.

[jgarib]

I'm not sure if it's the same in all states, but here in CT the beginner course is mostly geared toward people who are shooting to get their M endorsement on their license. There is a Basic, Experienced and Advanced course.

The basic and experienced are pretty much the same thing. The main difference is basic preps you for getting the endorsement while the experienced+ uses your bike and skips the classroom/test.

Basic:
2.5 day course (first session is classroom about 4 hours)
6-8 hours of in class time spread over two days followed by a written test
12 or so hours of riding time

Experienced:
one day course
8 or so hours of on bike instruction

Personally, if you're a good driver and know the rules of the road look to jump into an experienced course if available. They'll work with you if you don't know a certain routine and the course is designed to build up to the more advanced routines.

If you think you could benefit from the classroom time, go ahead. But its a much larger time commitment. It pretty much just covers whats in the MSF book which I'm sure you could find online.

Again, this is for Connecticut... I have no idea if it's the same for other states but I would think the basic would at least have classroom time in all cases and any non basic would not.

[GilaMinumBeer]

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

How long have you been riding? At $200 for just the basic it might be worthwhile to just read this book: Amazon.com: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (0731360405364): David L. Hough: Books

Then pony up and go straight to the Experienced Rider Course or the above mentioned Advanced Rider Clinic.

Impossible to use years as a measure of experience. I have owned the bike since 2004 and put nearly 10k miles on it the first year or two but that was due to a common (daily) commute that racked up 220 miles+ a day round trip. Mostly turnpike, State Highways (dodging turtles), and country roads.

For several years it sat mostly undercover but ridden occasionally for trips to store and joy rides with the kids around the block.

In the last couple years i have gotten back to riding daily but, once again, it's a common commute to work at 30 miles a day round trip on highways and city center roads. Main thing is I have also made a LOT of changes to the bike recently and it's pretty much a new machine to me. However, I recently clocked in 20k miles. So, by years I am an ameture. By miles, somewhat advanced but in consideration of common route that knocks me back to being pretty much a novice despite riding in all conditions minus snow and ice.

I have, recently actually, read Proficient Motorcycling and found much of that to have already been self taught but also learned that I do need to practice some limit tests, figure 8's at slow speed, and edge trap maneuvers.

Now, I am half way through the second chapter of Mastering the Ride by the same author. And took offense to his wee snipe about bent up cars indicating bad drivers. It was a trailer dammit! It was stormy and dark and I couldn't see the dang thing. And I suck at backing up with a trailer. The self inflicted caved in rear quarter panel is not worth the expense of having a new bedside welded on in it's place. That money was better spent on a new exhaust.

[ZackDaniels]

It sounds like you should go straight to advanced. You can't learn too much, and you can't put a price on safety, but if you're looking to just take 1 course this year an advanced would almost certainly be more beneficial. Anything you're doing less than correct on stopping, turning, shifting techniques will still come to light with close instruction, and group discussions. I'm sure you'd gain something out of a basic, but odds are good you'd gain a lot from an advanced.

Especially since it means you get to use your bike and learn its limits as well as yours. The ARC course covers some general maintenance and setting a bike's suspension, checking brakes, etc. as well. So it would also be good insight into all those changes you've just put in.

Here's the 101 on what the ARC does:

Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic HD - YouTube

Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic HD - YouTube

I haven't taken it, but I've been looking into it and others a lot. It has me pretty well sold on the best possible advanced class to take, but availability in my area is somewhat limited and the cost is more than MSF is all.

[GilaMinumBeer]

Originally Posted by ZackDaniels

The ARC course covers some general maintenance and setting a bike's suspension, checking brakes, etc. as well. So it would also be good insight into all those changes you've just put in.

Here's the 101 on what the ARC does:
Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic HD - YouTube

Thanks for that, I'll look closer when time permits.

I'm mostly looking to improve my critical handling technique and learn the bike limits to handling in a situation that doesn't involve the paramedics.

I'm good on maintenance and know each every connector, cable, wire, and doodad on this machine now after diving headfirst into a front to rear maintenance and adjustment added to that I have always done all the maintenance on this bike after the 500 mile service from teh dealer.

Of course, knowing what everything does and how to adjust it is only half of the equation. The hard part, I find, is figuring out where the sweet spots for comfort and reliability are in each setting.

[vzshadow]

I took the Basic Rider Course and it was the first time I was very on a motorcycle. THis course starts out as simple as how to get on the bike without dropping it, friction point on the clutch, very very basic. If you are currently riding, it would be of little value to you.

I took the Experienced Rider Course two years later. I'd say I didn't really learn anything new, but it jogged my memory in many, many ways. I kept saying to myself, "Oh, I'd forgotten that." There is minimal "classroom" time, mostly on the bike. They emphasize look where you wan the bike to go, look through the turn, safety. Most of the course is slow speed maneuvers, something most of us don't practice enough. The instructors are very good at spotting your bad habits. That in itself is worth the price of admission.

My recommendation would be to go straight to the Experienced Rider Class, but you should probably call the local school, tell them a little about yourself, and see what they recommend.