Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Campbell, TX
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: Who to trust ... honda or electrosport
So I ran through the electrosport diagram today on the bike. AWESOME bit of info there. Because of the first few checks, I found that my power line from positive to the fuse was fried.
So I got all the way to the stator on that diagram, and I made my measurements between the 3 yellow wires. I measured .4, .5, and .5 ohms. According to honda, this is perfect. According to electrosport, if I measure less than 2 ohm I should replace the stator.
I didn't test the R.R. because I thought the stator was bad, but now that I've read the manual, I'm wondering if it really is. What do y'all think?
I checked the VAC between all the yellow lines when the bike is revved way up. I'm measuring over 50 VAC on between all of them. According to my manual, the stator checks out.
I'll check the R.R. tomorrow to see if it is my weak link.
And just FYI ... when the bike was idling, I had 13.2 volts on the battery. When it was revved at ~3000 RPM, it was around 12.7 V, and when revved at ~5000 RPM, it was 12.3 V. I aint charing, that's for sure.
Any ideas? Like I said, I'll check the R.R. tomorrow morning. Could the stator be the problem? My yellow wires are soldered, so I should be fine as far as that goes. _________________ Tim Adams
1990 VT1100C Shadow
Make sure to follow the check sheet to find the problem if there is one. I cant remember the link to the check sheet off the top of my head but maybe someone else will chime in.
Might also try what I did. I had low voltage at the battery also but I fixed mine with one wire. You can read about it here:
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 7354 Location: Dallas, GA
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:00 am Post subject:
First, you can't use an Electrosport trouble shooting guide to diagnose a Honda part.
The Electrosport stator is a direct replacement unit but it is not the same unit.
The windings in the Electrosport unit are different and will therefore
have different readings.
If you are checking the Honda part, use Honda spec values.
If you are checking an Electrosport part, use their values.
If you are getting 50VAC at a little above idle, your stator is good.
Sounds like your RR is bad.
You'll also want to check the battery. A bad battery can pull a charging
system down and make it look like it's not charging.
Make sure the battery is fully charged and then get a load test done on it. _________________ Gasoline is for washing parts, Alcohol is for drinking... NITRO is for racing!
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 4268 Location: Claremont, NH
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:09 am Post subject:
Also, measuring the resistance of a stator is very hard to do accurately. It's a coil that's designed the generate electricity. If you test it while near any magnetic field (florescent lights, substation, transformer, electric motor, etc) it will be generating a small current that will throw your readings off.
Your readings indicate a good stator, and like litnin said, if all three wire combinations generate 50V (AC!) or more at a few thousand RPM, you're good to go.
If you test it while near any magnetic field (florescent lights, substation, transformer, electric motor, etc) it will be generating a small current that will throw your readings off.
True.....if it is close to any changing magnetic field. Being close to a fixed field does nothing !! _________________ '07 VT600C VLX
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Who to trust ... honda or electrosport
ttexastim wrote:
And just FYI ... when the bike was idling, I had 13.2 volts on the battery. When it was revved at ~3000 RPM, it was around 12.7 V, and when revved at ~5000 RPM, it was 12.3 V. I aint charing, that's for sure.
Assuming your "no load" battery voltage is 12.6, then you ARE charging until you get above ~3K RPM. At 12.3, you sure aren't charging.
I am very interested in your results as my bike shows similar readings......but never falls below 12.6......and the battery is always fully charged, so I don't think I have a problem.
Others have found a problem with the ground wire serving the regulator not having a "good" ground. A few have even installed a better wire and more solid frame connection. _________________ '07 VT600C VLX
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Campbell, TX
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject:
HELP! I can't find the problem.
OK ... here's what I know.
Battery is 13.06 before I start the bike (New AGM battery).
Bike at ~3K RPM = 12.85 V
BIke at ~5K RPM = 12.4 V
Stator:
No continuity between ground and yellow wires.
Resistance between yellow wires is .4, .5, and .5 ohms
Unhooked from R.R. and revved measures over 50 VAC.
Rectifier:
All diodes measure .47 V.
No reverse diode voltage.
with yellow wires connected, and bike running, I am measuring .77 VDC between the red wire and the green wire. I played with hooking up the green connector to the stock wires, and using an alligator clip to ground it and found no difference in the measurement (R.R. was bolted to the bike when doing this.
What am I missing? My batttery shows 12.4 Volts when revved up, which means the charging system has a problem, but the Stator checks out, and the R.R. checks out too. Anyone have any ideas? _________________ Tim Adams
1990 VT1100C Shadow
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Campbell, TX
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject:
Okay ... I just hooked everything back up, and started over.
Idle Voltage - 13.56 VDC
3K RPM VOltage = 13.2 VDC
5K RPM Voltage = 13.2 VDC
I checked the voltage between the red R.R. wires and the positive terminal of the battery and I get .21 V. According to electro-sport, this should be below .2, and they suggested that I check all connections between the R.R. and the positive terminal of the battery.
I just replaced on of those wires yesterday, and then got a great measurement. I just double checked the wires and everything looks good to me. I noticed also that while the engine is running, the yellow wires and the red/white wires get hot to the touch. THe red wires get hot all the way to the main fuse.
Has anyone encountered this before? I ride daily, rain or shine, so I wouldn't be surprised if I have a connection that is bad, but I just went through them all yesterday. THe only wire I didn't chase is a single red that runs from the red wires into the bike's wireing harness.
If I thought buying new parts would resolve the problem, I would just do it at this point. However ... I'm now scared that I'd get new parts and still have the problem. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. _________________ Tim Adams
1990 VT1100C Shadow
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 54 Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject:
i had a problem with my RR a while back.
all checked out just fine till it reved up a bit like yours.
it was the RR. to be specific it was one of the SCRs in the RR.
when the the SCR was turned on and the stator volt high enough the SCR never turned off thus shorting out the stator (the way it regulates the charge output) and reducing the charge volt and the ac voltage measured at the yellow wires to less than 12V, if i remember correctly, due to the conducting SCR. it was only 1 bad SCR(1 low volt reading on yellow wire). if i turned off the bike or disconnected the RR to take the volt off the SCR then back on it reset and it was normal till it conducted full time again.
the way to check this is check the ac volt between the yellow wires while running the engine and the RR connected.
if the ac volt at the yellow wires drops below about 12 volts, not positive about how low it went but when you see it you will know it.
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 564 Location: Campbell, TX
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject:
Thanks for that.
I just went and checked those voltages. At idle, I measured VAC between the yellow wires. I got 12.2 VAC when I first started the bike. Then as it warmed up, it fell down to 11.9 or so VAC for all wire combinations. I also noticed that those yellow wires don't take long to heat up. I felt around to see if I could find the source for the heat, and the R.R. is VERY hot as well.
I'm pretty much listening to y'all at this point, because my manuals don't have any other things to check listed. _________________ Tim Adams
1990 VT1100C Shadow
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 4268 Location: Claremont, NH
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:
ttexastim wrote:
Thanks for that.
I just went and checked those voltages. At idle, I measured VAC between the yellow wires. I got 12.2 VAC when I first started the bike. Then as it warmed up, it fell down to 11.9 or so VAC for all wire combinations. I also noticed that those yellow wires don't take long to heat up. I felt around to see if I could find the source for the heat, and the R.R. is VERY hot as well.
I'm pretty much listening to y'all at this point, because my manuals don't have any other things to check listed.
Wait, wait, wait.
How can those yellow wires and R/R heat up while you're testing it? The R/R is disconnected...
Unless...did you shove the meter probes into the connector with everything still connected? If so, you're measuring that the R/R is shunting back to the stator. You'll get nowhere in your testing that way. Disconnect the R/R and test the AC voltage between all of the yellow wires with the stator unplugged from the rest of the electrical system. Now you should see the voltages as described.
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 4268 Location: Claremont, NH
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject:
Easy Rider 2 wrote:
tubes_rock wrote:
If you test it while near any magnetic field (florescent lights, substation, transformer, electric motor, etc) it will be generating a small current that will throw your readings off.
True.....if it is close to any changing magnetic field. Being close to a fixed field does nothing !!
Ah, but if you're moving while between the fixed magnetic field and the fixed stator, your body will modulate the field and still induce a current!
Can you try checking the Red/white wire where it comes out of the R/R and see what the voltage is at idle and revving and compare that to what you are getting at the battery. My guess is that you will see it a bit higher and will stay steady and higher than idle when you rev it. Just poke your probe in the connector beside the wire and ground different places to see what you get.
If you do get more, stable voltage it means either your ground or your positive from R/R to battery is not up to snuff. In that case try running ground directly from R/R ground wire (green on mine) to the engine ground at the starter. _________________ 2003 Honda Shadow VT750 ACE DLX
Vance & Hines Cruzers and rejetted, K&N, filter, saddlebags, windshield, 39 rear sprocket
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