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post #51 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fireguy View Post
I go with Yuasa whenever possible
Hopefully they've improved. Last one I had a was a few years back, and "never again". Asked an auto-electrician friend for help, when he heard the brand of battery I had he told me in very impolite terms where I could fit it. Talking with him later, apparently "You Ars*Hole" brand batteries had a very bad name among auto electricians due to a very large number of failures, things from terminal posts pulling out to plates shorting to just not holding charge.

If they've improved, great, but they'll have a very hard sell getting me (or just about everyone I know) to put one in our bikes again.

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post #52 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck_Michigan View Post
Phil's Load/Battery Supply comparison is how you want to think of it. He explained it very well.
I'd mis-read your post to mean that higher capacity batteries were a problem, though also something with alternators.

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It's one of the reasons I never let them add the acid to my batteries. The vendor usually wants to add the acid for you, give it a 'quick' charge (14 volts and lots of amps), and then have you out the door as soon as he's done.
I guess I'm lucky, the vendors I know have a few batteries on a proper charger before they sell them. Our "consumer gaurantees act" makes them make sure the batteries are good, otherwise annoying pricks like me will be making damned sure they give us a good new battery for free if the old one only survives a couple of years.

Quote:
So that super high output alternator is going to be trying to do the same thing to your stock sized battery during it's life every time it enters the charging state.
While some chargers themselves have circuits that'll draw extra current through the battery, I've not seen it in alternators. Most vehicles I've seen the battery is in parallel with the alternator, so I'm struggling to see how it can be made to draw extra current.

I've known a number of motorcyclists to fit stronger alternators to their bikes because the load of extra lighting or other attachments draws more power than the standard one can reasonably handle, but have kept the standard battery (one mate has a car battery in his side car to power his popup caravan, and a LOT of extra electrical stuff needing a full-fat car alternator). No one's had any issues with batteries dying prematurely

That's where I'm trying to understand the claims - the battery is in parallel with the alternator (checked a few diagrams while writing this ), there's nothing that would force the battery to draw extra current, so why would a stronger alternator make the battery charge faster than it wants to?

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post #53 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 04:25 AM
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@KiwiRider , the way I understand it is if you light up your bike like a Christmas display complete with boom box , a little more alternator is a good thing , and more battery slows down the extreme discharging that happens when you got the Rhumba full blast and the disco ball spinning while waiting in traffic or maybe sucking up the brews idling at some lookout with the other blokes.

But I wouldn't know cuz I never figured out how to stop burning the wires . Might have something to do with SOLDERING said wires to the frame when joining them together , keeps them from bouncing around .

Yanks Rule !

"At all times you are only where you really want to be," unknown old man in a desert lightning storm.

Last edited by Sundown; 11-25-2017 at 04:36 AM.
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post #54 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
@KiwiRider , the way I understand it is if you light up your bike like a Christmas display complete with boom box , a little more alternator is a good thing , and more battery slows down the extreme discharging that happens when you got the Rhumba full blast and the disco ball spinning while waiting in traffic or maybe sucking up the brews idling at some lookout with the other blokes.

But I wouldn't know cuz I never figured out how to stop burning the wires . Might have something to do with SOLDERING said wires to the frame when joining them together , keeps them from bouncing around .

Yanks Rule !
If I ever hear some SOD uttering that bloody SODDERING in my presence, then believe me wires soldered to the frame will be the least of their worries! (other things might be introduced to the soldering iron... )

(I don't want my bike lit up like a christmas tree, next time some prick comes at me with their lights on full I just want to "light up their life" - oh and a rearward-facing EMP generator for those twits who insist on tailgating would be nice as well - think I might need to increase my battery size a little first...)

Last edited by KiwiRider; 11-25-2017 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #55 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-27-2017, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KiwiRider View Post
First thing is to be sure you're measuring right - I've had spent hours hunting a fault which turned out to be in my multi meter! Some of the displays aren't always so accurate either.

Second, were you measuring it at idle with all your lights etc on? At idle your bike won't be generating much power, you'd need to be at 2K RPM on many bikes (varies) to get a standard voltage with lights on (my 86 doesn't have a light switch) [edit missed your saying it was at 4K rpm]

If your meter is right and you're measuring at the battery, lights off etc, then you seem to have an issue. First thing to check is the wonderful 3 wire connection between your stator and your loom (usually 3 yellow wires coming out of the engine). The connector commonly cooks, and a lot of riders I know actually solder those wires together. Basically once one terminal loses it's connection the other two wires take up the slack, meaning they get hotter, meaning they cook. If any of those terminals look like they're discoloured, grab your soldering iron (note to yanks it's pronounced SOLDer not SODDDER! ), cut away the plugs and solder the wires together. It should not matter which goes to which but consult your manual's wiring circuit just to be sure (I can take a look if needed).

From there, well, a service manual has tips on checking that. Most of them aren't hard to follow if you have some electrical skills, if not then ask here and I'm sure some of us can guide you through it (while we also give you a bit of training on forum arguing as well )

HTH and if not, ask.
UPDATE:
I found a problem with one the wires in my regulator connector. One of the wires weren't seated all the way in the plug, thus only two wires were actually connected when the plug was connected. There wasn't any heat/burning damage so I simply took some needle nose and pulled the tab through the regulator connector until it was taught. Now it charges the bike at a solid 14.6 at 2k RPM.
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post #56 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-27-2017, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Update: New AGM battery runs great. Multiple starts, in multiple conditions without fail. Another question to add about my new AGM battery. There is about a 1/2 gap now at the top of the battery when placed in the holder. I will post another members photo for reference since I don't currently have one of my own. I did double up the weatherstripping/foam on the back of the wire harness that rest against the batteries front side (made a better snug fit). I also currently cut a little 1" x .5" piece of wood, placed weather stripping on the top and bottom of it, and placed it on top of the battery where I have circled. This keeps the battery pretty tight, and removes the chance of it "bouncing". My question is 1) Am I OK with it like this, or would it be better to cut a piece of wood that would fit under the battery to raise it up tight to the referenced point instead? 2) Is it OK/good idea to have wood in direct contact with the battery? 3) Any other suggestions?

Thank you


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post #57 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-27-2017, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jheid089 View Post
Update: New AGM battery runs great. Multiple starts, in multiple conditions without fail. Another question to add about my new AGM battery. There is about a 1/2 gap now at the top of the battery when placed in the holder. I will post another members photo for reference since I don't currently have one of my own. I did double up the weatherstripping/foam on the back of the wire harness that rest against the batteries front side (made a better snug fit). I also currently cut a little 1" x .5" piece of wood, placed weather stripping on the top and bottom of it, and placed it on top of the battery where I have circled. This keeps the battery pretty tight, and removes the chance of it "bouncing". My question is 1) Am I OK with it like this, or would it be better to cut a piece of wood that would fit under the battery to raise it up tight to the referenced point instead? 2) Is it OK/good idea to have wood in direct contact with the battery? 3) Any other suggestions?

Thank you


battery dot jpg
I wouldn't use wood. I'd use some foam sheeting. Firm foam sheeting that looks a bit like styrofoam, but is flexible and crushable with memory would be ideal. All the air pockets in it allow it to absorb shocks while retaining its shape.

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post #58 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by w6wat View Post
I wouldn't use wood. I'd use some foam sheeting. Firm foam sheeting that looks a bit like styrofoam, but is flexible and crushable with memory would be ideal. All the air pockets in it allow it to absorb shocks while retaining its shape.
Could you post a link for an example? Would you layer it under the battery? Or just a little box of it where I have circled?
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post #59 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jheid089 View Post
UPDATE:
I found a problem with one the wires in my regulator connector. One of the wires weren't seated all the way in the plug, thus only two wires were actually connected when the plug was connected. There wasn't any heat/burning damage so I simply took some needle nose and pulled the tab through the regulator connector until it was taught. Now it charges the bike at a solid 14.6 at 2k RPM.
Glad you got it sorted so simply! For a long time I was against the idea of modifying my bike in such a horrific way as to cut out a plug and solder the wires together. Heading home from work one day (live in one town work in another with country roads in between) got so far, remembered I'd left my smokes behind (don't smoke any more - Alan Carr's "Only way to stop smoking permanently" worked for me ), so turned around and headed back to work. God must've been smiling on me because I got over the last bridge, the last hill, and barely a mile away before the bike died and wouldn't re-start. So I pushed her to work, got my partner to drive over and collect me, left her there for the night. Stripped all sorts of stuff before dealing with that connector, but just replaced the internals wouldn't "ruin" my girl. Few years later, pissing down with cold rain, on the side of the road with a dead bike and dead battery. No more 3-wire plug. Bear it in mind. You might get away with it (most Honda's do after all) but you might also find yourself stuck in crappy conditions.
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post #60 of 93 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jheid089 View Post
Update: New AGM battery runs great. Multiple starts, in multiple conditions without fail. Another question to add about my new AGM battery. There is about a 1/2 gap now at the top of the battery when placed in the holder. I will post another members photo for reference since I don't currently have one of my own. I did double up the weatherstripping/foam on the back of the wire harness that rest against the batteries front side (made a better snug fit). I also currently cut a little 1" x .5" piece of wood, placed weather stripping on the top and bottom of it, and placed it on top of the battery where I have circled. This keeps the battery pretty tight, and removes the chance of it "bouncing". My question is 1) Am I OK with it like this, or would it be better to cut a piece of wood that would fit under the battery to raise it up tight to the referenced point instead? 2) Is it OK/good idea to have wood in direct contact with the battery? 3) Any other suggestions?
I'd go with the foam idea w6wat mentioned myself. Your battery doesn't have to be tightly held (and you can damage it if you get things too tight) but it is nice to shield it from shocks. One thing I've never though to check with the AGM's is if they heat up during use. Probably not, but I'd suggest leave some space for air around it just in case it needs to cool down some. My bike's battery spent months in the drainage area in front of the front wheel well in my car while the car's battery was dying. I wasn't permanently connected, I'd just sometimes need the extra jump then I'd hook it up and leave it on for the trip. Aside some some scratching to the case it was fine, and it had nothing to stop it rattling around in there. Keep it from knocking about, but don't worry about clamping it down tight. Worst case if you do you'll damage it (eg crack the case) or it'll cook itself (not sure if that's possible, never heard of it with an AGM but have seen a SLA balloon out) HTH, HAND

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