1984 honda shadow vt700c universal solenoid - Honda Shadow Forums : Shadow Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Model: VT 700
Year: 1984
Location: Rockford, IL
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1984 honda shadow vt700c universal solenoid

It looks like my solenoid is starting to fail. I found some universal ones on ebay, and I was wondering if anyone has had experience with these. My stock solenoid has a wire that runs to the back of the solednoid, and I don't see that on universal ones. What Im assuming is on the universal solenoid, there is green box with multiple pins. This is where the universal part comes in and I would match the right pin. Sound right?

Thanks,
Joe

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:58 PM
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You could get one of the new types with a connector like this.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Sol...frcectupt=true



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Rel....c100005.m1851


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1983 750 Shadow
From the past=
1951 Cushman scooter
1962 Honda 305 Dream
1965 Honda 305 Dream
1971 Honda 175 scrambler
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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I understand that, more curious how compatible it was
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 09:44 PM
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Not sure about compatibility, but have posted pics of the 84 wiring diagrams with 2 crops focusing on the starter solenoid/spark controller 2 circuit. @swifty2014 may have some insight here...
From the wiring diagrams, I'm reading a third lead possibly coming from the solenoid and intersecting the wiring to the second spark unit between two diodes. In a different thread there was speculation that this may be a triggering circuit to possibly retard spark during cranking. It may well be that the "generic" solenoids you are looking at lack this third connection, but overall, may not have any adverse effect if eliminated.
@swifty2014 , do you want to weigh in on this?
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If it jams, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowGeezer View Post
Not sure about compatibility, but have posted pics of the 84 wiring diagrams with 2 crops focusing on the starter solenoid/spark controller 2 circuit. @swifty2014 may have some insight here...
From the wiring diagrams, I'm reading a third lead possibly coming from the solenoid and intersecting the wiring to the second spark unit between two diodes. In a different thread there was speculation that this may be a triggering circuit to possibly retard spark during cranking. It may well be that the "generic" solenoids you are looking at lack this third connection, but overall, may not have any adverse effect if eliminated.
@swifty2014 , do you want to weigh in on this?
To your comment about the Spark controller 2 circuit, I had removed Spark Unit 2 since it was causing my bike not to start. With the universal solenoid, there is a green block which I am assuming is where i would have to figure out which pins would make up the third wire combo
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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This is what I’m talking about. The two wires yellow/red and green.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:33 PM
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I worked on Japanese cars for years and have found they are pretty tight lipped about design information. I sure would like to know more about that additional spark unit since my 1983 has one and yet the manual shows none till 1984. Very confusing.



But as far as the start solenoid all you need is 2 wires to trigger it. One comes from the ignition start switch (yellow/red) and the other is the grounding side (green/red) through the clutch switch, neutral switch (and kickstand switch on later bikes). If you have the added yellow/red just connect it to the ignition switch power side.
I wonder if that wire is to give full battery voltage to the ignition while cranking, eliminating voltage drops ???
I say that because I know I always have about .7 volt drop to the front as it is. And cranking will increase that.


Anyone remember the old point ignition systems where there was a wire from the start solenoid directly to the coil while cranking? Other wise the coil and distributor had a lowered voltage through a dropping resistor to preserve the points.
Just an idea.

Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
1983 750 Shadow
From the past=
1951 Cushman scooter
1962 Honda 305 Dream
1965 Honda 305 Dream
1971 Honda 175 scrambler
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swifty2014 View Post
I worked on Japanese cars for years and have found they are pretty tight lipped about design information. I sure would like to know more about that additional spark unit since my 1983 has one and yet the manual shows none till 1984. Very confusing.



But as far as the start solenoid all you need is 2 wires to trigger it. One comes from the ignition start switch (yellow/red) and the other is the grounding side (green/red) through the clutch switch, neutral switch (and kickstand switch on later bikes). If you have the added yellow/red just connect it to the ignition switch power side.
I wonder if that wire is to give full battery voltage to the ignition while cranking, eliminating voltage drops ???
I say that because I know I always have about .7 volt drop to the front as it is. And cranking will increase that.


Anyone remember the old point ignition systems where there was a wire from the start solenoid directly to the coil while cranking? Other wise the coil and distributor had a lowered voltage through a dropping resistor to preserve the points.
Just an idea.

I remember them well.... ballast resistors
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:55 PM
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Exactly.

Just wonder if that is what that extra yellow/red wire going directly to that extra unit is.

But then again the bikes will run without that unit.

My brain hurts now !

Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
1983 750 Shadow
From the past=
1951 Cushman scooter
1962 Honda 305 Dream
1965 Honda 305 Dream
1971 Honda 175 scrambler
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by swifty2014 View Post
Exactly.

Just wonder if that is what that extra yellow/red wire going directly to that extra unit is.

But then again the bikes will run without that unit.

My brain hurts now !
I was looking at the wiring diagram and yeah it looks like yellow/red goes to extra spark unit, and it was a bit hard to follow the green to clutch. THis is more like my solenoid https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Rel...ss!61107!US!-1. Its for a an older VT1100, but im sure it would work either way.

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