[Jshofner]

Alright yall, I need some guidance here. I bought the bike 2 years ago, and it has about 16k miles on it. I have had zero technical issues with this bike (aside from general maintenance) and the guy before me had no known issue either. It is a daily driver, I use it to get to class as I am a student at Texas A&M. I took my bike to a honda motorsports dealer to get my rear tire changed. 10 minutes after leaving the shop, I hear a pop, then a rattle, and then the engine shut off. I hit the starter again and the solenoid just clicked. I trailer it home to diagnose the issue with the help of my neighbor, a 70 year old seasoned motorcycle mechanic, and we both diagnose a starter issue. I took the starter out, hooked it back up the the electrical system of the bike and tried to spin it, and the solenoid just clicked. I then got a volt meter and measured 12.5 volts to the starter. So the starter itself was broken. I also put the bike in 5th gear, and rolled it about a foot just to make sure the engine was still spinning, and it was.

Fast forward to today, i got the new starter installed and it turned over for no longer than 1 second before the same issues as before started. Bamboozled, i tried the rolling trick again just to check, but this time i tried to roll it farther than 1 foot, and it just stopped moving. I then rolled it back to its original position, but it wouldnt move any futher back.
So now, with all that being said, where do I go from here? I am very hesitant to tear into it in case the dealership unknowingly broke it so that they cant say that I messed up the bike in case I try to get them to take another look at it.
What do yall think is wrong, and where do yall think I should go from here?

edit: i am charging the battery now just to make extra certain im not leaving anything to chance here (bc id really love not deal with the transmission rn)

 

[Absolem Jackdaw]

I doubt they broke the starter by just changing the rear tire.
I'm also very impressed by you being able to push a bike in fifth gear to make sure the engine is spinning.
Generally to push a bike that is in gear you need to action the clutch to be able to move it.

The starter not going over can be a battery issue, so i'll be waiting for you to report back after charging it.
Measure the battery directly. it should have 12.4 or 12.5.
At 3k rpm it should charge and be at 14.3 something volts. (second, forgot you cant start the bike)
if you crank it, what does the battery measure out ? if it dips below 10 or 9 your battery is shot or too low. cant remember the details.

you say you put a new starter in. If you have access to another 12volt battery, try and hook it up to it and see it turn over. if it doesnt turn over your starter doesnt work (doubt it) try equally with the old one. if it still works you got a spare starter now.

check your solenoid too.

but first charge the battery really.

 

[Jshofner]

I doubt they broke the starter by just changing the rear tire.
I'm also very impressed by you being able to push a bike in fifth gear to make sure the engine is spinning.
Generally to push a bike that is in gear you need to action the clutch to be able to move it.

The starter not going over can be a battery issue, so i'll be waiting for you to report back after charging it.
Measure the battery directly. it should have 12.4 or 12.5.
At 3k rpm it should charge and be at 14.3 something volts. (second, forgot you cant start the bike)
if you crank it, what does the battery measure out ? if it dips below 10 or 9 your battery is shot or too low. cant remember the details.

you say you put a new starter in. If you have access to another 12volt battery, try and hook it up to it and see it turn over. if it doesnt turn over your starter doesnt work (doubt it) try equally with the old one. if it still works you got a spare starter now.

check your solenoid too.

but first charge the battery really.

I was perplexed at first too, i wrote off the starter issue as just a weird coincidence and did not blame the dealership. However, I can confirm that the old starter does not work, and the new starter does. (Tested both on the same fully charged external battery before i installed the new one) The issue now is either (hopefully) low voltage on the bikes battery, or (worst case) something holding up the transmission. If it is the transmission, I feel like i have enough proof to at least say “hey, to take the tire off you have to remove it from the drive shaft on the bike which is connected to the transmission, and I know I have not touched it.” I really dont want to cause issues with the dealership, or accuse them directly without enough evidence that it could have possibly been them. Im doing my due diligence now, but im hesitant to tear into the transmission just in case it is their fault, so i can have plausable deniability that I did not touch that part of the bike between when i left the dealership, and now.

 

[Absolem Jackdaw]

testing the transmission is another topic really.
You can't start the bike if it is not in neutral, the stand is down or if you arent squeezing the clutch lever.
If you are doing all three (neutral, clutch lever and stand up) it should start and your transmission / clutch will not stop the bike starting.
The bike should start or at least try to start and the transmission/clutch will always be disengaged when you try to start it.
if the clutch plates are stuck the bike will lurch or just stall.

your issue is definitely electric. starter not going, solenoid only clicking....

the pop and rattle you heard is likely just the starter dying ? but I dont get why your bike would stall after that.
Maybe a short from battery you had ?
electrical issues are called gremlins for a reason, and Ive chased one for the past three years myself (2.75 of those of which I didnt know it was a gremlin)

report after charging the battery, and don't forget to put the voltmeter on it when cranking the engine to see how low it drops when cranking for 5 or 10 seconds.
after that we'll talk about the FACTS of what a motorcycle needs to start up.

 

[Jshofner]

I appreciate the help but maybe I am not explaining as well as i could be. I’ll update after the battery is charged and i try to turn it over again. Ill post a video with my update so you can see and hear what Im talking about. Ive had electrical issues with other bikes in the past and this just does not feel like one, but we’re about to find out (in like 4-5 hours when the slow ass charger i have finishes charging the thing).

 

[swifty2014]

Did you check the oil level just to be sure it has plenty?
Could it possibly be a hydro lock problem? Fuel had run into the cylinders?

Take a spark plug out of each cylinder and try to roll the bike in high gear and see if it turns over.
And look for fluid to come out of the cylinders.

 

[bweighmaster]

I would be suspecting something in the rear drive ... shaft / difererential .....

 

[Jshofner]

I would be suspecting something in the rear drive ... shaft / difererential .....

Thats what im starting to think now. I figure if there was something inside the transmission, the bike either wouldnt budge at all in gear, or only some of the gears would allow for movement. However, i used the previously mentioned rolling method about an hour ago and it rolled about two feet in all gears. Which led me to believe there might be a stoppage either upstream or downstream of the tranny that is only allowing for minimal movement. Since they had to remove the shaft to get the tire off, this is a possibility. One of the tech’s also broke a bolt during assembly, and i am fairly certain he said it was for the shaft, but he said he got the whole bolt out, so i’ll be following up on that with the service manager. The starter turns the engine until a certain point, and then it abruptly stops which tells me this problem is mechanical, not electrical.

 

[bweighmaster]

Thats what im starting to think now. I figure if there was something inside the transmission, the bike either wouldnt budge at all in gear, or only some of the gears would allow for movement. However, i used the previously mentioned rolling method about an hour ago and it rolled about two feet in all gears. Which led me to believe there might be a stoppage either upstream or downstream of the tranny that is only allowing for minimal movement. Since they had to remove the shaft to get the tire off, this is a possibility. One of the tech’s also broke a bolt during assembly, and i am fairly certain he said it was for the shaft, but he said he got the whole bolt out, so i’ll be following up on that with the service manager. The starter turns the engine until a certain point, and then it abruptly stops which tells me this problem is mechanical, not electrical.

Get on it right now ... Don't wait ... Any broken bolts are the mechanics fault ..... No excuses there ....

 

[Jshofner]

testing the transmission is another topic really.
You can't start the bike if it is not in neutral, the stand is down or if you arent squeezing the clutch lever.
If you are doing all three (neutral, clutch lever and stand up) it should start and your transmission / clutch will not stop the bike starting.
The bike should start or at least try to start and the transmission/clutch will always be disengaged when you try to start it.
if the clutch plates are stuck the bike will lurch or just stall.

your issue is definitely electric. starter not going, solenoid only clicking....

the pop and rattle you heard is likely just the starter dying ? but I dont get why your bike would stall after that.
Maybe a short from battery you had ?
electrical issues are called gremlins for a reason, and Ive chased one for the past three years myself (2.75 of those of which I didnt know it was a gremlin)

report after charging the battery, and don't forget to put the voltmeter on it when cranking the engine to see how low it drops when cranking for 5 or 10 seconds.
after that we'll talk about the FACTS of what a motorcycle needs to start up.

Did not take a video but i can confirm that everything you are telling me to check is working.
Battery is charged to 14v, im getting 12.5ish upon engaging the starter, and all of that voltage is going to the starter. My problem is mechanical. The starter turns the engine up until a certain point, maybe a 3/4 revolution and then it abruptly stops, like a rod going through the spokes of a spinning bicycle wheel. Then, you have to manually reset the engine by pushing the bike in reverse a 3/4 turn. The starter will not turn the engine past that point, and it tries very hard to. I do not want to burn out another starter by trying to get it to move something that wont move. Something is blocking the natural motion of the motor, and it is either upstream or downstream of the transmission, because each gear has the same amount of play. They had to take the wheel off the drivetrain, and he broke a bolt reassembling. He also only had use of one arm, because he wrecked his motorcycle a week prior and taken all the skin off his left forearm. The more i think about it, the more and more likely an error on the dealerships part is. I have reached out to the service manager as well as the owner of the dealership to solve this issue. I want to ensure that IF this is their fault, i have all the necessary tools to hold them accountable without having to pay money I dont have, to fix a problem that is most likely not my fault.

 

[cyclejohn]

I took my bike to a honda motorsports dealer to get my rear tire changed. 10 minutes after leaving the shop, I hear a pop, then a rattle, and then the engine shut off.

One of the tech’s also broke a bolt during assembly

he broke a bolt reassembling. He also only had use of one arm, because he wrecked his motorcycle a week prior and taken all the skin off his left forearm.

J,

Trailer your bike back to the dealership and offer them up all of the information you have typed on this forum.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...it is probably a duck.

It sounds like 'one-armed Louie' may have not done everything properly (it doesn't sound like it, actually, he broke a freakin' bolt off according to your type-age).

 

[Jshofner]

J,

Trailer your bike back to the dealership and offer them up all of the information you have typed on this forum.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...it is probably a duck.

It sounds like 'one-armed Louie' may have not done everything properly (it doesn't sound like it, actually, he broke a freakin' bolt off according to your type-age).

Thats exactly what im going to do. Only problem is its spring break and the decision makers are on vacation with their families, which I understand. Im going to take it in monday or tuesday when they get back.

 

[bweighmaster]

I would be sure it's there waiting on them ......

 

[Jshofner]

I would be sure it's there waiting on them ......

Dropped valve destroyed the motor so im screwed. Gotta rebuild the whole damn thing. Turns out it was a wild coincidence.

 

[bweighmaster]

That's life , best to find a complete engine ... Should'nt be hard .....

 

[Ramie]

Dropped valve destroyed the motor so im screwed. Gotta rebuild the whole damn thing. Turns out it was a wild coincidence.

If your going to rebuild or just want to read through an informative thread check out Maytto rebuild thread. It's long but a fun read.

engine rebuild and more...

Short story: I have two '83 vt750 engines that both have a few different problems. I've decided to tear them both down and rebuild one "good" engine from the best parts. Of course a better solution would be to buy and replace the bad parts, but I just don't have the cash flow for that right now...

www.hondashadow.net