[TylerLew89]

So I have been gone for a few months. Awhile back i had an event occur and I'm 90% my tranny is shot.

Right after it happened I got married and moved...finally getting around to restarting my work. Just installed some lights and a space heater in my tiny garage. Gonna start tearing the engine out soon and posting updates.

Here is how the bike currently sits. Started small today and only took off the pipes, tank, and pegs. Will get around to pulling the rest and the engine soon.

Image 1

image 2

 

[jpr1968]

So, why do you believe your trans is gone?

 

[Harryc]

So, why do you believe your trans is gone?

Has me wondering too. This would be a very rare occurrence.

 

[TylerLew89]

Check back in my post history for all the details.

Basically bought my bike in pieces and the po had rebuilt the motor himself. Got her together and running with strange sounds coming from gear box. 25 miles later in 4th gear doing 70 and BAM, loud noise from engine and a lot of rattling.

Pulled clutch in and pulled over while back tire was locking up, gear shifter frozen, engine was idling fine.

I suspect transmission. Will take her apart to find out. Engine has 80k miles

 

[TylerLew89]

Finally getting to work!

Wow, so almost 3 months after starting I finally am getting back to it. Hit a snag getting my flywheel off and it really killed my motivation. With spring finally coming my motivation is back.

Used my 22mm flywheel removal tool I got off amazon:Flywheel Puller

With the flywheel off pulling the clutch and shift linkages was easy.

Used my bike lift to drop the engine out. Went well until after taking it out I had the quick realization that I had nothing to hold the engine up. I used some ratchet straps to hold it to the lift but I couldn't work that way and didnt trust it.

Debated buying an engine holder but couldn't stand wasting cash. Finally got some spare wood out of the shed and fashioned together a little stand that works great for now.

Next I started disassembling the front cylinder. Never have been in a motor before so I am going slowly.

Cylinder and valves look great! excited to get this thing apart

 

[swifty2014]

Hope all goes well. I have an old 83 750 and has some clatter in the trans. in high gear, so I am interested in what you find inside.

 

[ttexastim]

Looking good Tyler! I know exactly what you mean. I think my rebuild took over a year. You get all motivated, then hit a snag. then months later you finally get a part and get after it. Just keep it up. You'll get there.

You gonna replace timing chains while you're in there?

sounds like your top half was running fine. I'd probably do the water check on your valves just to make sure you have a good seat. (turn the head upside down and fill the concave top with water. Come back a bit later and see if you have any water down inside the intakes or exhaust. That will tell you if the seat is good enough. If no leak, I'd just slap her back together as she is without reseating the valves.

Good luck my friend.

 

[TylerLew89]

You gonna replace timing chains while you're in there?

I am not too sure about this. You can see the timing chain in my 3rd image above. I really didnt understand the measurement that the manual wanted to me take. The drawn diagram wasn't super clear. It sounded like if that protruding piece was more than 9mm above the other than I need a new chain. My quick measurement was right at 9mm. Is this supposed to range from 0-9 or is it only ever 8.5-9? I couldn't get a sense of how bad it might be.

Are these timing chains easily replaced? I see OEM sites are $100+ for one. My knowledge on this is ZERO.

I'd probably do the water check on your valves just to make sure you have a good seat.

Sounds like a good plan. Like I said, valves and cylinder look great so im not worried. Got 182 psi on compression check before teardown.

 

[jpr1968]

f you think it's the transmission why are you pulling the top end a part?

 

[TylerLew89]

f you think it's the transmission why are you pulling the top end a part?

Only way to the tranny is the split the entire crankcase. Only way to do that is take apart the top end

 

[ttexastim]

I am not too sure about this. You can see the timing chain in my 3rd image above. I really didnt understand the measurement that the manual wanted to me take. The drawn diagram wasn't super clear. It sounded like if that protruding piece was more than 9mm above the other than I need a new chain. My quick measurement was right at 9mm. Is this supposed to range from 0-9 or is it only ever 8.5-9? I couldn't get a sense of how bad it might be.

Are these timing chains easily replaced? I see OEM sites are $100+ for one. My knowledge on this is ZERO.



Sounds like a good plan. Like I said, valves and cylinder look great so im not worried. Got 182 psi on compression check before teardown.

I'd replace them man. Here's how it works. The tensioner has a curved plastic part that goes down the jugg and that little metal button thing at the top. When a new chain is in, the plastic tension part is more straight, which causes the top end of the plastic to stand taller in the metal bracket. When that stands taller, the button part you see in pic 3 does not stick out as tall. As the chain gets loose, the plastic tension part gets more curvey, which lowers the end, and the little button looking thing there rises higher to compensate and to keep the tension even. That's why it asks you to measure that exact measurement. The smaller the number, the better.

The manual should tell you that to take all tension off, you grab the plastic tensioner part and pull it all the way up, while pressing the metal button all the way down, then you put a brad or a small nail through a hole in the plastic which keeps the plastic part way high, and the metal button flush with the metal bracket. As the chain stretches out, the plastic part sinks lower, and the metal button gets taller.

This is hard to explain in text. LOL

Here's pictures from my rebuild:

BEFORE: Crap ... I can't find a pic of before. It looked like yours though.


After:

The button thing doesn't stick up as high.

Here's another shot. from above. You can see how high the actual tension peice is on this (it's nearly flush with the top of the metal bracket. The little metal button part sat lower (can't recall the exact measurement)



Picture of the tensioner being held straight, with no tension on the chain. Look close to see the cotterpin I used to hold the tension off.



I'm half going off memory here, so bear with me.

 

[TylerLew89]

Where did you buy your chains from? Any idea how long they typically last?

If I am gonna get another 20k miles with the current chains then I am not gonna bother replacing. I am still only 25% sure I can get the thing back in once piece anyway.

For me I couldn't get any surface area to pull wedge "A" up. Manual says to press B down and pull A up. There was no pulling of A for me. For now I have already disassembled the front so I will have to play with the rear next. I assume they should wear evenly? Do you replace the tensioner as well?

 

[gypsy]

i would beware of assuming anything on this project. follow the book, follow the pictures and make sure you get it right. i just (over the fall and winter) split the cases on my 98c and put tourer gears in except for the the one that raises the rpm, i kept the spirit gear instead so i could retain lower cruising rpm's. if you move surely through every procedure and double, triple check your work and do exactly what the manual says (read the section you are working on several times!!!), you should succeed. the timing chains and the head/cover/hydraulics/shims are a PITA but it IS doable. the tranny is not as difficult as they are. there is no hurry. can't be. ive been rebuilding mine for about 8 months now and ive just about got the engine done... this week or next. good luck friend and keep us up to date on the particulars if you can. cheers

 

[ttexastim]

Where did you buy your chains from? Any idea how long they typically last?

If I am gonna get another 20k miles with the current chains then I am not gonna bother replacing. I am still only 25% sure I can get the thing back in once piece anyway.

For me I couldn't get any surface area to pull wedge "A" up. Manual says to press B down and pull A up. There was no pulling of A for me. For now I have already disassembled the front so I will have to play with the rear next. I assume they should wear evenly? Do you replace the tensioner as well?

Get a long screw driver and use it to push the plastic tensioner part towards the oustide wall down in the jugg (if you look down where the timing chain goes, you'll see it curved and pressing on the chain. Use the screwdriver to press it away from the chain). When you do that, Wedge A will rise enough so you can grab it.

I can't remember where I got my chains. I think I posted the list in my rebuild thread of where I got stuff. I'll check. I didn't replace the tensioner, I left it as is. One of the few things I chose to leave.

I agree with Gypsy too. Follow that manual for taking the stuff all apart.

 

[ttexastim]

Hey Tyler, On my rebuild thread I listed my partslist for my rebuild. It shows where I got everything, how much it cost, and what the part number was. It's on page 8, attached as a PDF file.

http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/72-technical-discussion/285401-1990-vt1100c-rebuild-thread-8.html

 

[TylerLew89]

Hey Tyler, On my rebuild thread I listed my partslist for my rebuild. It shows where I got everything, how much it cost, and what the part number was. It's on page 8, attached as a PDF file.

http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/72-technical-discussion/285401-1990-vt1100c-rebuild-thread-8.html

Thanks Tim, went back and did a full re-read. Pretty good write up. Was that price listed per chain or together? I'll keep my eyes peeled for an ebay deal

Your issues with the tappets has got me concerned lol. I didn't take apart the rocker arm assembly and I don't plan to. Why were you having such problems with breaking your tappets? Was the rocker arm assembly above just not lined up properly and things were jamming? Kind of side topic but I am curious. I imagine since I am not taking apart the rockers I shouldn't run into this issue.

 

[ttexastim]

I was struggling with the tappets because I would line it up properly upside down where I could see it, then in the process of flipping it over to put on the head, the rocker arm things would twist on me. So I'd think I had it sitting good, and you don't know any different till you crank it down.

If you take the covers off each side of the 3 rocker arm assys, you can see markings to let you know how to line it up. It's super easy to do that. I thouth I was saving me tons of effort by not doing it at first, it turned out being way easy (and would have saved me 2 tappets).

 

[ttexastim]

price was total. 60 bucks for 2 I beleive.

EDIT: DANG! I just went and tried to look for the same deal I got. Same seller is now selling them for 90 a peice. That blows.

 

[TylerLew89]

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "sitting correctly". I went through my manual last night to see if I could understand it there as well but I think I am missing something.

I see it tells you to remove the side caps to view the rocker arm alignment. Does the way they sit affect how the tappet gets installed? Is it not just as simple as placing the shims on the head, sticking the tappet on the shim, then lowering the valve cover on top?

What about the rocker arms was dorking up your tappets? I'm not asking to question what you did, I am asking to make sure I don't mess this up when I get there.

 

[TylerLew89]

Well I made more teardown progress today. Shocked how easy this engine that's older than me is to get apart. So far no signs of anything wrong except some missing alignment pins. Pictures below.

Next step is splitting the case in half!

Really hoping to find something. Does anyone recall how easy it is to turn the input shaft to the transmission by hand? Mine is rather difficult. It'll turn then get hung up and make odd noises. With how easy the crank is to turn by hand I can't imagine the tranny should be this difficult.

Wish me luck!

Rear cylinder cam chain