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i heard about a oil filter/ synthetic oil combination that gave a 933 cc v twin engine 9 hp and 11 lb ft of torque somewhere.. made by HB Hogs? anyone heard of/ used this before?
 

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I call B.S. on that!

But it is pretty amazing what claims are made about some products in the hopes that someone will take the bait.
 

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Sure, why not, if you change from a 70/100wt wt oil to a 5 wt oil, I suspect you could achieve a 9hp increase. :wink:
 

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88shadeguy said:
i heard about a oil filter/ synthetic oil combination that gave a 933 cc v twin engine 9 hp and 11 lb ft of torque somewhere.. made by HB Hogs? anyone heard of/ used this before?
88shadeguy,

While you didn't mention the cost, it seems like it would be the cheapest HP I ever heard of!!

I'd be very suspicious of that claim for sure!!

Manufacturers are down to using oil viscosity for minute gains in performance...something as 'break-through' as that would make major headlines .....I think.

John
 

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cbjr0256 said:
Sure, why not, if you change from a 70/100wt wt oil to a 5 wt oil, I suspect you could achieve a 9hp increase. :wink:
cbjr0256,

I don't have the figures handy, but, even with that I think you'd need to be pumping at least 100 Gal/min and oil temp better be down around zero while going to a cyclone fence size filter from a 10 micron!

There's nothing scientific about my numbers, I made them up.... as I'm sure the person who made the claim did!! :wink: :wink: back at you :)

John
 

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Way back when I remember when JC Witney played up big time on things that saved fuel. Almost everything in their catalog would save you (up To) anywhere from 10% to 60% in fuel. So even if you went to the lowest numbers but bought eight or ten of those items your car would have to make gas. LOL.

Now lighter oils does help to reduce energy cost, but its not a lot, but if every vehicle (car or light pickup truck) in the world saved a tiny bit of fuel then the final numbers are BIG!

As additives improve, oils will get thinner. I've said this before, its kind-a like the difference in swimming it water or swimming in a thick gravy. Swimming in water would use less energy, the same thing is true for an engine. Okay, if the engine moves free'er then wouldn't that increase HP? will yes, but not enough to change engine performance specifications (on the normal everyday engines)

Another problem with getting oil so thin is a LOT of friction modifiers have to be added to the oil to properly protect the engine. So the 0W-20 oils don't work well with wet clutches. Now if the EPA law's roll over into motorcycles more and they are required to use the lighter weight oils then they will have to be changes made in the design of the wet clutch system. Now if that's done and our bike are made to run on a 0W oil the horsepower output wouldn't change enough to change the performance numbers. Also, oil pumps have to be setup differently.
MarkC
 

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MarkC said:
Okay, if the engine moves free'er then wouldn't that increase HP? will yes, but not enough to change engine performance specifications (on the normal everyday engines)
If you want to get really technical, it doesn't.
When you 'free up' the engine, it's not going to make any more hp.

The hp is already being made. Changing oil will not change the hp.
It will free up horsepower that is being used or absorbed by other means,
and allow it to be directed to the wheels or other accessories that need it,
but "make more" it absolutely won't do.
 

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OK, first let me say that I'm not saying this is true. I did see the same thing in one of the V-twin magazines. Supposedly a dyno test done by the mag. The first test was ran with a conventional oil filter and conventional oil. The second test was the same bike with the new oil and filter and they claimed a pretty noticeable HP and torque increase. The oil was supposedly 20/50 synthetic if I remember right, and the filter was a CNC machined billet aluminum piece that they claimed flowed with so much less restriction that no HP was wasted running the oil pump in the engine. Like I said, I'm not saying it's true. Also, the filter was about $200.00. That's a lot of money for an oil filter but as far as bikes go, that's pretty cheap for 10 or 12 HP. The company was Purepower or something like that, don't remember exactly.
 

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morepower said:
The oil was supposedly 20/50 synthetic if I remember right, and the filter was a CNC machined billet aluminum piece that they claimed flowed with so much less restriction that no HP was wasted running the oil pump in the engine. Like I said, I'm not saying it's true.
If the oil flowed with less 'restriction' then it wasn't the same viscosity.
That's what viscosity is... it's how 'fluid' the oil will flow through a given
size hole in a given amount of time.

If it passes through faster, it's less viscous. If it passes through slower, it's more viscous.

The heavier the weight oil, the more hp is parasitically taken from the
components have to move or work in that oil.

That's the thing with these people who say these things.
They throw verbiage out and most people read what they want to read
and not what is actually said.
Marketing is very clever in the way they word things for that exact reason.
 

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litnin said:
morepower said:
The oil was supposedly 20/50 synthetic if I remember right, and the filter was a CNC machined billet aluminum piece that they claimed flowed with so much less restriction that no HP was wasted running the oil pump in the engine. Like I said, I'm not saying it's true.
If the oil flowed with less 'restriction' then it wasn't the same viscosity.
That's what viscosity is... it's how 'fluid' the oil will flow through a given
size hole in a given amount of time.

If it passes through faster, it's less viscous. If it passes through slower, it's more viscous.

The heavier the weight oil, the more hp is parasitically taken from the
components have to move or work in that oil.

That's the thing with these people who say these things.
They throw verbiage out and most people read what they want to read
and not what is actually said.
Marketing is very clever in the way they word things for that exact reason.
Yeah, I understand viscosity and agree with what you are saying. The claim they were making though was that the filter was less restrictive, at a given pressure you can get a lot more oil through a 2 inch pipe than a 1/4 inch pipe is a crude way of saying what they claimed their oil filter did. I think where their claim is flawed though is that the real restriction to oil flow in an engine is the bearing clearences, etc. That's why when an engine has a lot of wear, the oil pressure starts to drop.
 

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IF you plummed around the oil all together your not going to free up the pump. You still would have the same pressure in the system. That's because pressure builds and keeps oil pumped to the bearings, its the tight tolerance's in the crank bearings, cam bearings, rod bearings, and ect... that creates back pressure in the system. As the bearings wear and tolerance's increase pressure drops. The oil filter is part of the system, so it does add to the total, but the free'er flowing oil filter is going to let off any pressure on the pump, now what it will do is not filter as well. I'm pretty sure that Litnin and others that are around race engines will tell you that those re-usable/cleanable oil filters have much more of a use in race engines then they do in everyday use. Just remember that those race engines have a VERY short life before they get torn down and rebuilt.
MarkC
 

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morepower said:
I think where their claim is flawed though is that the real restriction to oil flow in an engine is the bearing clearences, etc. That's why when an engine has a lot of wear, the oil pressure starts to drop.
Exactly.


MarkC said:
I'm pretty sure that Litnin and others that are around race engines will tell you that those re-usable/cleanable oil filters have much more of a use in race engines then they do in everyday use. Just remember that those race engines have a VERY short life before they get torn down and rebuilt.
Yep. We use a re-usable filter on our car.
It's a very course filter, compared to a street vehicle's filter.
But, we aren't as concerned with the very small particulates and filtering
carbon contaminates.
We are concerned with filtering the big metal flakes and chunks.
We run 4.5 - 5 thousandths (0.0045 - 0.005) bearing clearances where a street vehicle is
usually around 1 - 1.5 thousandths (0.001 - 0.0015). We also run 150psi oil pressure.
And yep, bearings get replaced every pass.
 

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Are they talking about live horse power? I'm sure you could easily add some dead horse power. Maybe even some really ill horse power.
 
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