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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not a ususal thread starter but this got my attention reading the lastest issue from AMA

They claim there are 11 MILLION motorcycles in this country ( I have always used 5 million riders in my stats reasoning why I chose to ride without gear specifically helmets) with a less than 1% death rate.


In this day and age another publicly supported Motorcycle crash study (ala the Hurt study which is likely still valid) seems unnecessary. The reason I say this is because on another page they indicate the fatalities have gone from the usual 5000 to 4300 in the past year and down for the second year in the row....Really a big study for 4000 riders MOST of whom determined their own fate? I know Cycle News mag is anti - AMA and this could be a reason.

This is not meant to be a gear debate but really Do we NEED another study? 4000 deaths out of 11 million or even 5 million.......doesn't seem to me alarming and just a natural result of fallibility by humans

Now I ride everyday most of the year. I know people may not see me and do all I can to fix tat with bright shirts, modulators, light bars etc, I know high risk riding ala twisties, urban commutes, hot dogging, inexperience, drinking and more will likely cause the need for more gear but not another study revealing what we already know unless that study is funded by a private organization WITHOUT an agenda (such as a helmet manufacturer or insurance company)
 

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I am not a ususal thread starter but this got my attention reading the lastest issue from AMA

They claim there are 11 MILLION motorcycles in this country ( I have always used 5 million riders in my stats reasoning why I chose to ride without gear specifically helmets) with a less than 1% death rate.


In this day and age another publicly supported Motorcycle crash study (ala the Hurt study which is likely still valid) seems unnecessary. The reason I say this is because on another page they indicate the fatalities have gone from the usual 5000 to 4300 in the past year and down for the second year in the row....Really a big study for 4000 riders MOST of whom determined their own fate? I know Cycle News mag is anti - AMA and this could be a reason.

This is not meant to be a gear debate but really Do we NEED another study? 4000 deaths out of 11 million or even 5 million.......doesn't seem to me alarming and just a natural result of fallibility by humans

Now I ride everyday most of the year. I know people may not see me and do all I can to fix tat with bright shirts, modulators, light bars etc, I know high risk riding ala twisties, urban commutes, hot dogging, inexperience, drinking and more will likely cause the need for more gear but not another study revealing what we already know unless that study is funded by a private organization WITHOUT an agenda (such as a helmet manufacturer or insurance company)
seriously..im surprised that our government doesnt abolish the helmet law,,let people make their own decisions,.esp after watchin jesse ventura's conspieracy theories about the government that wants to kill off 50% of the worlds population,this would be one way for them to do it. i personally wouldnt go without a helmet,even if it were just a ride up the street,,most accidents happen within a few miles of your home,(another reason im thinkin bout movin..lol)...
they should worry about studies to cure cancer,and other diseases in this country..theres alot more studies they could be spending money on that would make more sense.
 

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Well I generally agree with you. I do wear gear for none of the reasons you mention but, I agree that most motorcycle and car accidents are preventable. I have a problem with studies in general as they are usually biased to the group manipulating the data, but; as long as they don't use my money, I don't care about the study.
 

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... ,most accidents happen within a few miles of your home,(another reason im thinkin bout movin..lol) ...
Hmm, makes me wonder what the statistics read if you're homeless. :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
seriously..im surprised that our government doesnt abolish the helmet law,,let people make their own decisions,.esp after watchin jesse ventura's conspieracy theories about the government that wants to kill off 50% of the worlds population,this would be one way for them to do it. i personally wouldnt go without a helmet,even if it were just a ride up the street,,most accidents happen within a few miles of your home,(another reason im thinkin bout movin..lol)...
they should worry about studies to cure cancer,and other diseases in this country..theres alot more studies they could be spending money on that would make more sense.
Unfortunately for Jessie elimination the helmet law would come no where even close to eradicating 50% of the worlds population...LOL It would barely put a nick in US deaths.
 

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Good luck finding any study done by someone without an agenda. One of the many problems with MC surveys are seldom do they differentiate between cruisers, sports bikes, dual purpose etc. Also, there was a survey out funded by the insurance conglomerates that determined that more than half the M/C's out there are ridden about once a year. The helmet debate is a moot point and neither side will ever listen to the other... kind of like any other issue out there with two sides. I wear gear (helmet, boots, gloves) because years back I laid a bike down at high speed and the helmet was scraped all the way through and the heels on my boots were rubbed all the way down to the sole. I also ride a lot at highway speeds. Running around town, I'd probably not be inclined to wear it. I personally don't care if there is a helmet law or not. If someone is in an accident and they suffer head injuries that the doctor said wouldn't of happened with a helmet, raise their premiums just like what happens to us if we have a DUI or multiple accidents in our cars and trucks. That will never happen because the anti-helmet folks would scream the "that ain't fair" argument. As a former first responder, I've seen what happens to people when they are in a wreck and not wearing seatbelts... but you'll never convince those who don't wear one that they should. To each his own. Surveys will be biased. Politicians will lie, the little guy will screwed on "cutbacks", taxes will go up and hot chicks with big boobs will always be more popular! Facts of life.
 

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Good luck finding any study done by someone without an agenda. One of the many problems with MC surveys are seldom do they differentiate between cruisers, sports bikes, dual purpose etc. Also, there was a survey out funded by the insurance conglomerates that determined that more than half the M/C's out there are ridden about once a year. The helmet debate is a moot point and neither side will ever listen to the other... kind of like any other issue out there with two sides. I wear gear (helmet, boots, gloves) because years back I laid a bike down at high speed and the helmet was scraped all the way through and the heels on my boots were rubbed all the way down to the sole. I also ride a lot at highway speeds. Running around town, I'd probably not be inclined to wear it. I personally don't care if there is a helmet law or not. If someone is in an accident and they suffer head injuries that the doctor said wouldn't of happened with a helmet, raise their premiums just like what happens to us if we have a DUI or multiple accidents in our cars and trucks. That will never happen because the anti-helmet folks would scream the "that ain't fair" argument. As a former first responder, I've seen what happens to people when they are in a wreck and not wearing seatbelts... but you'll never convince those who don't wear one that they should. To each his own. Surveys will be biased. Politicians will lie, the little guy will screwed on "cutbacks", taxes will go up and hot chicks with big boobs will always be more popular! Facts of life.
Wow now there is a statement I couldn't agree more with! :!:
 

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If they want to increase motorcycle safety their money should be spent in educating drivers of CARS not motorcycles as car drivers are the main problem. Not seeing bikes or not paying attention. I still maintain that wearing a helmet isn't going to save you in a crash at highway speeds in an impact with another vehicle. Sure there might be a few cases where the helmet may have made a difference but in most cases the speeds involved and the forces involved are just too high to be survivable helmet or not. Low speed crashes, yeah, safety gear is gonna help. But legislating safety is ridiculous and wasting money on test and studies like this is stupid.

The casualty rate of less than 5000 deaths vs millions of riders should be enough to say that in reality motorcycles are actually quite safe.

But as i said, if you want to make motorcycles safer, focus on car drivers not legislating helmet and safety gear laws.
 

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... Politicians will lie, the little guy will screwed on "cutbacks", taxes will go up and hot chicks with big boobs will always be more popular! Facts of life.
Wow now there is a statement I couldn't agree more with! :!:
Yeah, I like the b:shock:bies part. Good thing he put that at the end or I would lost focus during the rest of the post. :wink:
 

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Unfortunately for Jessie elimination the helmet law would come no where even close to eradicating 50% of the worlds population...LOL It would barely put a nick in US deaths.
oh i know that..lol..im just sayin that whats a few hundred?,if they are infact tryin to kill off 50% of the worlds population..with the helmet law abolished it would be less the government would have to worry about.
 

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As a former first responder, I've seen what happens to people when they are in a wreck and not wearing seatbelts... but you'll never convince those who don't wear one that they should. To each his own.
same here,,20+yrs as a firefighter,ive seen the results of what happens to people not wearin sealbelts as well..some i wished id never seen..our state has a helmet law,but still have seen some pretty bad wrecks involving motorcycles,but not near as messy as with the cars occupant not wearin a seatbelt,fortunately i wasnt on 1 of the motorcycle wrecks where the passengers head was ran over by an 18wheeler,but even a helmet couldnt save them..please if you do ride without a helmet,think of the 1st responders who (if you wreck)have to clean up the pieces..its nothing that we look forward to.
 

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:shock: Studies...statistics...Phffffffffffft. :p
 

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I saw a saying somewhere that people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post... more for supporting their position than for illumination....
 

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I keep telling you folks they DON'T GIVE A **** about your safety, your money yes, control over you YES, safety.. nope. I mean if they really cared about safety why then would they first put rumble strips on center lines, then as an after thought throw out a small sign suggesting you use caution?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If they want to increase motorcycle safety their money should be spent in educating drivers of CARS not motorcycles as car drivers are the main problem. Not seeing bikes or not paying attention. I still maintain that wearing a helmet isn't going to save you in a crash at highway speeds in an impact with another vehicle. Sure there might be a few cases where the helmet may have made a difference but in most cases the speeds involved and the forces involved are just too high to be survivable helmet or not. Low speed crashes, yeah, safety gear is gonna help. But legislating safety is ridiculous and wasting money on test and studies like this is stupid.

The casualty rate of less than 5000 deaths vs millions of riders should be enough to say that in reality motorcycles are actually quite safe.

But as i said, if you want to make motorcycles safer, focus on car drivers not legislating helmet and safety gear laws.
Yep over 70% are vehicle to vehicle..which means urban riders are at the most risk of that nasty event. Most crash speed impact are at 21 MPH.....a Frigging bicycle can go that fast.

The only defense is the rider being seen and anticipating every vehicle will pull out.. Modulators help, black leather doesn't if one wants to be seen. Drivers will NEVER be taught to see something they don't expect. 99% of what they expect to "see" have more than 2 wheels. WE HAVE TO BE THEIR EYES and do EVERYTHING we can to be seen and heard.

IMO a bright Hawain shirt is far better than a black leather jacket when it comes to safety. One will help keep you from not being seen..the other will help when you are not seen....

No need for another report..We know shyte happens...mostly to the other guy,
 
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