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2007 VT750DC Spirit “chopper”
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Sit??????
E10 sitting for a few months personally concerns me with water ingress with my modded vented cap and stock tank vent line open to atmosphere, so for my ride I always ensure I have ethanol free when I go into winter here and the bike will be sitting for 3-4 months without starting, I throw in some Stabil too just to ease my overthinking mind.
 

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2015 Shadow Aero, 1972 Triumph 650 Tiger
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E10 sitting for a few months personally concerns me with water ingress with my modded vented cap and stock tank vent line open to atmosphere, so for my ride I always ensure I have ethanol free when I go into winter here and the bike will be sitting for 3-4 months without starting, I throw in some Stabil too just to ease my overthinking mind.
Exactly my line of thinking, Sta Bil 360 Marine. Here in southeast GA I've let my bikes sit for four months and they start right up as long the fuel has some Sta Bil 360 Marine, Lucas Octane Boost and Sea Foam. But I'm hearing that California gasoline is a whole different ball game and heaven forbid. And again if you've taken a college course in Chemistry then you'll know that alcohol absorbs water which will ultimately separate out. That's where the addition of Sta Bil will cause the separated water to blend back into the fuel where both can be combusted together.
 

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I'm fortunate enough to have ethanol-free 87 and 91 readily available. The bike and lawn equipment drink pure 87 and both cars call for premium so they take the pure 91. Since I can I run pure all the time, but it wouldn't bother me to pump 10% here and there, although not for winter storage. I still use Stabil over winter with the pure stuff just out of an over-abundance of caution for the carbs.
 
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1995 VT1100C2
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... alcohol absorbs water which will ultimately separate out. That's where the addition of Sta Bil will cause the separated water to blend back into the fuel where both can be combusted together.
A couple of problems here. Yes E10 will absorb moisture. which is a good thing because if you have that much moisture in fuel that cannot absorb it, ie E0, your tank will rust and/or at some point you will be running your engine on water. Not good. So how much moisture can E10 absorb and where does the moisture come from? Take a shot glass. Fill with water. Dump it in your tank. That seems like a lot of water right? Take another shot glass. Fill. and pour that one in also. Still good.

The moisture being absorbed must be in the tank. Ethanol is not absorbing from the atmosphere. So basically condensation. Unless your tank cap is left off in a rain storm the amount of available moisture is much less than the absorption rate so no chance of phase separation in a vehicle fuel tank. E10 users fuel tanks ae generally rust-free.

The problem with phase separation occurred when some stations converted to E10 and had water in the USTs (underground storage tanks). With E0 no problem because water from rain over years, stayed at the bottom of the tank. However converting to E10 that water mixed and brought the E10 to saturation point ie phase separation so when it got pumped into a vehicle it was ready to separate give even one more drop of water. Since the ealy 90s every UST is monitored for moisture and if a station converts to E10 the tank is drained first.

There is no additive that will reverse phase separation unless the volume of ethanol is increased to the point of absorption.

I have mentioned this a few times but here goes: My 1978 GL1000 that now has 450,000 km and no engine problems has had E10 (called gasohol) since 1985 so 35 years. It is stored for 6 months every year. My 1995 VT1100C2 has used E10 all its life so 25 years, stored 6 months and the engine is pristine. Makes me a fan of Honda and E10 and thus my long post.

And now the kicker for Brit bike fans: I have a 51 year old Brit bike that is stored about 11 months a year and runs E10 since 1985. You wanna know which bike look in my Showcase.
 

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Not all. Some stations here have 91 with no ethanol. I start using that as the season winds down in the fall so it gets stored E free.


Sitting on my VTX making Vroom Vroom noises.
I was referring to ethanol blends. All octane levels in Illinois and many other states have ethanol in them.
 

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1999 VT1100C2 A. C. E.
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So my question is how do they get 3 different grades of octane for detonation control, when all it says is 10% ethanol.
Are there other chemicals that change it ???
Putting it simply as I can: Octane rating is essentially a count of 8-part carbon chains. There are also chains of six and seven in gasoline. The higher the octane, the lower the percentage of shorter chains. Think of it as sorting by size -- higher octane fuel has more long chains and fewer short chains than lower octane fuel.

One thing I read was ethanol has a rating of 113 octane.
Which is why assuming that higher octane fuel has less ethanol is foolish. Adding ethanol boosts the octane rating of any gasoline sold for our vehicles.

Which makes the "85" nearly meaningless before we even get into the issue of ethanol pollution of the fuel delivery system. (Independent studies have shown up to 2% ethanol in "e-free" gasoline.)

I gets more confusing as I search.
The surest sign that you're catching on to the truth. The whole thing was set up by people seeking to deceive. They've done a good job! It's why you willingly send in tax dollars that go to corn farmers to subsidize production of a higher-cost fuel that you don't want. Then you willingly get in line to buy that fuel at whatever price you have to pay. All without any meaningful consequences to the deceivers -- who skim a measure from those tax dollars you sent.
 

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Octane rating is the reluctance of gasoline fuel to ignite, to avoid premature ignition from residual heat in the cylinder (knock and ping), which is why high performance engines that run much hotter than 'normal' engines require a higher octane rated fuel.
Ethanol does not 'attract' moisture out of the air, but because it is soluble in both water and gasoline it will act like soap or the old 'dry gas' additive and keep what little condensation creeps into the tank dissolved in solution instead of pooling in the bottom of the tank.
Ethanol is a pure aeromatic and will evaoprate 100% into the air leaving no residue of itself behind, but becasue it is a more aggressive solvent on some types of rubber compared to gasoline, some residues left behind after it evaporates comes from the items it dissolved. Labs that use it in testing have to remember to not use rubber stoppers.
 

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I'm fortunate enough to have ethanol-free 87 and 91 readily available. The bike and lawn equipment drink pure 87 and both cars call for premium so they take the pure 91. Since I can I run pure all the time, but it wouldn't bother me to pump 10% here and there, although not for winter storage. I still use Stabil over winter with the pure stuff just out of an over-abundance of caution for the carbs.
Same here in Oklahoma. If I want ethanol free gas, it's as easy as going to the next station up the road a mile away. None of my gasoline dependent property has ever seen a drop of ethanol other than my cars.
 

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1999 Shadow 750 ACE VT750CD3 Modified
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There is some confusion going on here.
This is how I remember it, which itself may be wrong (-;
Octane is a single petroleum distillate and was adopted as a base unit of measure.
A 100 Octane gas rating means the fuel is 100 more times resistant to preignition in a standard test engine than plain Octane.

Raising the Octane rating of a base gasoline rating can fall upon dozens of possible chemical additives.
 

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It's a scale compared to Heptane at 0 and isooctane at 100 (what percentage above heptane is it isooctane-like)
 

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.......Raising the Octane rating of a base gasoline rating can fall upon dozens of possible chemical additives.
As stated previously gasoline is a blend of several different hydrocarbons and varies from state to state and country to country.
 

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1999 Shadow 750 ACE VT750CD3 Modified
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Thanks @Kryton, my memory sure gets fuzzy around the edges. (-:

As a kid I used to mix Sunoco 260 and toluene and end up with a workable race fuel, that would pass the gasoline test, where they were mostly looking for alcohols or nitrates.
 

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2015 Shadow Aero, 1972 Triumph 650 Tiger
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Thanks @Kryton, my memory sure gets fuzzy around the edges. (-:

As a kid I used to mix Sunoco 260 and toluene and end up with a workable race fuel, that would pass the gasoline test, where they were mostly looking for alcohols or nitrates.
Can I use that blend in my stock motors?
 

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There is some confusion going on here.
This is how I remember it, which itself may be wrong (-;
Octane is a single petroleum distillate and was adopted as a base unit of measure.
A 100 Octane gas rating means the fuel is 100 more times resistant to preignition in a standard test engine than plain Octane...
Maybe the way I am reading this, but although octane is a product, most people use it as short form of octane rating ie a measurement rather than a product. The scale was established using iso-octane as 100 and pure heptane as 0. This allows a refiner to simply test and market fuel based on the PON required.
 

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2007 VT750DC Spirit “chopper”
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Can I use that blend in my stock motors?
Would be pointless unless you can sufficiently advance ignition. Stock engines should use stock gasoline.
 

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1999 Shadow 750 ACE VT750CD3 Modified
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Would be pointless unless you can sufficiently advance ignition. Stock engines should use stock gasoline.
Yes an absolute waste of time, money and would probably melt plastic stuff too.
It seemed a solution back in the days when I had a fixation on combustion pressure and it took me quite a while for it to sink in that fast for ten minutes is not really a great plan for somebody with no budget.
 

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Not all. Some stations here have 91 with no ethanol. I start using that as the season winds down in the fall so it gets stored E free.


Sitting on my VTX making Vroom Vroom noises.
I’ve gone to just using ethanol-free gasoline, especially now that gas prices are down. It cost me $6.55 to “fill” my tank yesterday, paying I think $2.79/gal. Where else can I spend $6.55, and have as much fun for as long a period of time?

Besides, the salt air here already screwed-up one carburetor on my VTX. Subsequently, I built a room beneath my house for my reverse-osmosis system, workshop and motorcycle storage, which I run a dehumidifier in set at 50% RH.
 

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Octane value isn't useful for anything but matching fuel to an engine. High compression engines run better on high octane gas, low compression (our Shadows) are designed for low octane. It's why Honda specifies 87 octane.

Ethanol is a plant-derived fuel and a general bamboozle of the world. The govt pays farmers to grow corn for ethanol, the oil companies mix it 10-15% with their real gas to drive profits. Environmentalists see the oil companies drilling a bit less, the farmers growing green things, and everybody thinks they're happy. Except for our machines...they like pure gas and hate corn juice.

The perfect gas for a Shadow, imo, would be 87 octane ethanol free. I can find the pure, but only in 92 octane. Or the dirty in 87 octane. I can never decide which to use and have been alternating each tank lol. I swear that the 87 octane makes less vibration buzz at high revs, but haven't compared enough yet.

Edit: correction, manual specifies 86 octane, not 87. For the first time in my life I'm going to follow the book and stick with 87 corn. When fall monsoons come and Bubbles doesn't want out, high octane corn-free diet so she stays healthy. I'm now left only to wonder if constantly referring to my bike like it's a living being is a problem.
 

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So my question is how do they get 3 different grades of octane for detonation control, when all it says is 10% ethanol.
Are there other chemicals that change it ???

One thing I read was ethanol has a rating of 113 octane.

E15 can be from 10.5 to 15 % = Alternative Fuels Data Center: E15

E85 can be from 51 to 83% = Alternative Fuels Data Center: E85 (Flex Fuel)

I gets more confusing as I search.
To get 3 different octane grades of E10, they start with 3 different octane grades of base fuel. In theory.
 

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Having run my 88 VT1100 in Europe and now in California there is no comparison between 91 v 100 octane. Higher octane wins and is an awesome experience. However, word of caution. If storing bike over winter and your fuel has ethanol in it, make sure you either drain tank or fill up completely. Combination of The cold weather and half full ( or lower ) tank allows water condensation to form
Inside your tank and will rust it out. And there are not many replacement tanks out there. Hope this was helpful. Ride safe.
 
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