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You know I have been thinking, I have a Honda car, Can I run MC tires on it? And should I wear a helmet while driving it:p
Coop
 

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If you buy a Car tire and mount it on a Bike. Is it still a Car tire?
 

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Seriously? There's absolutely no load on those tires in those pics. That's like comparing the edge of a tin can to that of a balloon - they will have a very similar contact patch until you press down on them. And of course the car tire in that pic is going to have more contact .... at vertical. But tires are designed with purpose and specifics. There are specific tire pressures and material compounds designed for motorcycles over those of a car tire. Certain load characteristic differences and tread designs. Side walls will contort and give within the circumstances, i.e. cornering/braking/accelerating. Most side walls for car tires bulge outward as opposed to those of a motorcycle tire which are more concave. This reduces the chance of the tire bead de-rimming itself in a lean.

Jeezus, you have only two patches the size of your palm between you and the ground. A tire’s traction, tread and stopping power are a major component of motorcycle safety. When compared to a car, a motorcycle will always stop more quickly and with more control and traction. And contrary to popular belief, this has more to do with the tread of the tire, then the weight of the vehicle too. Look at the tread design on both tires in that pic above! Notice all the "side" water repelling tread on the car tire? All the rear water expulsion is completely off the ground! Can you say hydroplane? Notice how nice and wide the design of the motorcycle's tread is on the sides? That is to help expel water side to side so the rubber has a less slippery surface in which to grip. Remember too, the motorcycle tire's compound is softer and more apt to grip then that of the car tire ... and the sidewall will flex in the correct geometry for a two wheeled vehicle.

Softer compounds make for stickier grip. This is a major reason that motorcycle tires will wear faster than car tires, however they will provide superior traction and control over a car tire. Why would you trade in your safety on just two wheels?

Under pressured car tires will wear faster on the outside of the contact patch whereas a motorcycle tire’s curved tread surface will tolerate this better. The curvature of a motorcycle tire also gives seamless transition from the vertical plane into a lean. Then there’s what I call the ‘drifting factor’. Ever put wider tires on the front of your car/truck only to find that the steering wheel does not snap back in a turn? – in other words you have to assist the steering back to center. That’s because of more surface contact. Same holds true for the rear, but only on a motorcycle and in most instances it’s at slower speeds whereas the rear tire will want to track directionally different from the straight line of the bike’s traveling direction. Then there's the difference in centerline offsets. The curved tread surface of a motorcycle tire helps to maintain better weight distribution toward the center of the bike. Look at this picture below and you can see just how far off the centerline of the bike the car tire puts the weight.



But despite his really cool sparklies, this is danger waiting to happen. I'm only trying to educate not spread intolerance. I'm trying to make sense whilest typing this quickly ... I do work you know. :lol: Again, if you ride on the darkside isn't it nice to have ALL the education you can get before reinventing the wheel? - Pun intended. :mrgreen:
 

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Aced it mentioned the softer compound on the mt, got it sideways, the softer compound mt tires are for racing,

I believe that you will find with a meter(been done before) that the car tire compounds are softer that standard street bike motorcycle tires.

see my thread/review from back in 2008 http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/53-general-discussion/75634-review-experience-darkside.html,,

note the fourth work in the link "experience",,I have gained more since this was written, my 1st tire went 16001 miles, had 1 plug in it (and new tube), there was more avail. tread wear, but the wear bars were getting near even with the treads. I am still running the same 165/80/15 but now a Kumho Power Star.

Despite the knowledgeable folks from "research and development" and their engineering brotherhood, this works. It is safe as the rider is capable. There is a rider that has over 400,000 miles using car tires, so mileage against theory,, for me the accumulated mileage of the darkside riders wins out.
 

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Well, I guess this is like preaching the word of His holiness on a pulpit in the fiery depths of Hell at this point. :lol: ... :shock: ... :lol:

Different strokes for different folks and I know the darksiders will stake their own claim. Pick what you want, it's a choice we all make. However here's more reasons I choose to skirt around the darkside .....

Try that with a car tire on your bike. Again, designed with a purpose. The point here is cornering ability (and general safety) both dry and wet as well as tracking.

The following is a bit me, a bit professional and a bit web quoted. It belabors a point that hopefully will come across as simply knowledge for the indecisive.

Most here are aware, motorcycles lean into turns, using rounded-tread tires, while automobiles stay relatively flat in turns, with flat-treaded tires. If you don't already know that, you'll probably fall off your scoot. However, this obvious difference also means that two entirely different principles apply to their operations. "Camber thrust" is a side force due to the tire leaning against the asphalt, with the turning force compressing the tire into the ground. This simulates what happens when a vehicle is traveling through a positive camber curve, and explains why a motorcycle's suspension tends to compress while turning. In other words, any turning motorcycle is capable of generating a downward g-force in excess of 1.5 times the pull of gravity, while a typical car will maintain 1g of downward force while cornering.

A cone will turn in a circle, as seen here:


A leaned over tire will rotate in a circular motion just exactly like a cone will:


When turning, camber thrust is what produces the majority of the tires' sidewall friction against the roadway for two wheeled vehicles, while "slip angle" determines the majority of tire tread friction for automobiles. Camber thrust is like a pencil eraser that is tilted away from the direction it is being pushed on a flat surface—giving maximum resistance, while slip angle is like standing in tennis shoes on a flat surface while trying to do "the twist." Motorcycle tires operate at ultra-high negative camber angles (good" camber), while most car tires have poor-quality suspensions that tip over and force the tires to work at positive camber angles (bad camber). On a motorcycle at highway speeds, maximum cornering force can be generated even when the front wheel is pointed virtually straight ahead, rather than when it is turned. Lean angle takes the place of steering effort, and since the inner edge of the tire is spinning at a lower RPM than the center of the tire, the bike is pulled in the direction of lean. This is why the surface of a motorcycle tire feel can feel "powdery" after a series of turns, unlike a car tire which just heats up or shears the tread off completely in tiny "beach-like" patterns.

Notice the motorcycle in a right hand turn has tires tilted to the right and the front tire is pointed straight:


By contrast, the car in a right hand turn has tires which are straight up and down, or slightly tilted out to the left, and the front tires are pointed in the direction of the turn:


A myth exists that leaning a motorcycle reduces the cornering grip (friction) of the tires. Notice that the mass of the vehicle does not change—if it weighed 600 lbs. on a straightaway, it still weighs 600 lbs. in a curve. However, gravity works in corners to help us out. Friction is actually increased when g-forces come into play. Camber thrust and total grip is also affected by centrifugal force as the motorcycle leans when going around a corner. Cornering causes centrifugal force to press the tires downward into the asphalt, compressing both the front and rear suspension springs, reducing ground clearance. Although reduced ground clearance can possibly cause the footpeg (or some other part) to scrape the ground. As long as there is tire tread touching the ground, without some other part of the bike disrupting tire contact, then the motorbike will still produce full cornering grip. The harder a rubber tire is squished into the ground, the more grip it produces. Camber thrust literally compresses the motorcycle tire as the rubber tries to roll under the wheel rim. Cars can't do this trick since the inside tires lose as much grip as the outside tires gain. Traditional car suspensions lose camber thrust completely in turns. The faster a motorbike rider goes through the same turn, the more grip he has to work with (until the bike drags). At a 45 degree lean angle, a motorcycle has nearly 50% more "weight" pressing the tires into the pavement, and thus benefits from nearly 50% more grip than it does when it is vertical, thanks to centrifugal force and camber thrust.

Obviously, motorcycles do not behave in an identical manner when compared to an automobile. So why would you want a tire designed for anything but it's purpose? It is a myth that motorcycles are initially steered by turning "normally" (steer left to turn left) and shifting weight toward the turn (leaning the body) to get the bike to initially lean into a curve. Isn't it interesting how can a motorcycle be steered in the same direction as a car when it leans in the opposite direction compared to a car? Physics is cool.

This is an article that relates to compounds and outgassing
.: Motorcycle Tire Tips | Canyon Chasers Motorcycle Sport Touring :.
... interesting read and within states, "... whatever you do, do not mix and match tires, particularly tires of different construction (radial vs. bias) and even tires of the same construction from two different manufacturers. You never know what handling result you will end up. We realize that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, and when out on the road getting a flat tire means you run whatever tire you can find. So at the very least, avoid at all costs putting on a stickier/grippier rear tire than the front tire. To do otherwise and you could easily find yourself in a situation where the traction of the rear tire overwhelms the traction of the front tire." - Same holds true for putting a car tire constructed completely differently from a motorcycle tire on a motorcycle.

You won't find me doing this, and if you do I'll say it again - be careful out there!

.... and the debate continues ... :lol:
 

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.... Remember too, the motorcycle tire's compound is softer and more apt to grip then that of the car tire ... and the sidewall will flex in the correct geometry for a two wheeled vehicle.

Softer compounds make for stickier grip. This is a major reason that motorcycle tires will wear faster than car tires, however they will provide superior traction and control over a car tire. Why would you trade in your safety on just two wheels?.....
I'm sorry but your wrong, car tires have softer rubber than bike tires. If you don't think so, go buy a tire duromete gauge and test the tires yourself like I did. I could not find one M/T that was as soft as the C/T that is on my bike.
The 175/75-16 C/T puts down about 3 times the rubber in a turn than the(larger) 180/70-16 E3 M/T and is softer than the E3 that was on my on my bike before(VT1100-T).

ROD
 

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This is an article that relates to compounds and outgassing
.: Motorcycle Tire Tips | Canyon Chasers Motorcycle Sport Touring :.
... interesting read and within states, "... whatever you do, do not mix and match tires, particularly tires of different construction (radial vs. bias) and even tires of the same construction from two different manufacturers. You never know what handling result you will end up. We realize that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, and when out on the road getting a flat tire means you run whatever tire you can find. So at the very least, avoid at all costs putting on a stickier/grippier rear tire than the front tire. To do otherwise and you could easily find yourself in a situation where the traction of the rear tire overwhelms the traction of the front tire." - Same holds true for putting a car tire constructed completely differently from a motorcycle tire on a motorcycle.

You won't find me doing this, and if you do I'll say it again - be careful out there!

.... and the debate continues ... :lol:
Well, I have mixed bias and radial tires, of different manufacturers, with excellent results. Just saying, the rules are not written in stone.
I don't ride my bike like a sport bike, maybe my mild mannerisms may allow me to get away with "dangerous choices".
Here we go again...
Dan
 

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I'm sorry but your wrong, car tires have softer rubber than bike tires. If you don't think so, go buy a tire duromete gauge and test the tires yourself like I did. I could not find one M/T that was as soft as the C/T that is on my bike.
The 175/75-16 C/T puts down about 3 times the rubber in a turn than the(larger) 180/70-16 E3 M/T and is softer than the E3 that was on my on my bike before(VT1100-T).

ROD
My bad for generalizing it down to "softness". There is a very wide range of rubber compounds used in motorcycle tires. A sport tire aimed at the racetrack like the Dunlop Qualifier has very soft rubber and doesn't last very long on the street (even less on the track). The tires on a cruiser are going to be harder and last longer.
 

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Well, I have mixed bias and radial tires, of different manufacturers, with excellent results. Just saying, the rules are not written in stone.
I don't ride my bike like a sport bike, maybe my mild mannerisms may allow me to get away with "dangerous choices".
Here we go again...
Dan
No, this is good info in terms of supporting each individual's unique riding experiences and style. What works for some though, may not work for others ... I'm just the one who wouldn't be willing to be the guinea pig there if you know what I mean. ;)
 

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No, this is good info in terms of supporting each individual's unique riding experiences and style. What works for some though, may not work for others ... I'm just the one who wouldn't be willing to be the guinea pig there if you know what I mean. ;)
Well, sir, if you consider the hundreds of thousands of miles ridden by darksiders over the past decades as putting you in the "guinea pig" status, I'm curious how many miles you have ridden darkside.
 

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No, this is good info in terms of supporting each individual's unique riding experiences and style. What works for some though, may not work for others ... I'm just the one who wouldn't be willing to be the guinea pig there if you know what I mean. ;)
Dude...

I respect your opinion, I respect the work you have done on your bike, I respect you as a person.

I was exactly like you at one time - a MC tire belongs on a MC and a CT on a car.

This "debate" is worthless. It truly is. You are belaboring a point that is truly pointless. MC tires will work on the rear of a MC, and quite well.

Once my relatively new ME880 wears out on the back of my Tourer, I will be going Darkside.

New ME880 170/80 - HR 16 = $200.00 or so not including mounting. Should last 15-16,000 miles.

New CT = $100.00 or so not including mounting, should last 30,000 miles minimum.

Kinda makes "cents"...
 

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@ simpleman ... well Sir, none and wont ever. I have seen tires fly apart from stress and I for one would like to ensure my tires are designed for my vehicle and purpose. I do consider it as guinea pigging if it were something I were to try for myself. Straight line seems to not be the issue ... its the physics of cornering that would concern me. You gonna knock me for my choice now? I'm only sharing information that others may find useful; just as the darkside opinions.

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@ markspike ... it's not worthless as it is many different individual perspectives and that assists others in making their own decision that's right for themselves. I don't have a problem laying down extra cash for something I'm more comfortable using though. So again, to each their own. It's all good :)

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@ markspike ... it's not worthless as it is many different individual perspectives and that assists others in making their own decision that's right for themselves. I don't have a problem laying down extra cash for something I'm more comfortable using though. So again, to each their own. It's all good :)

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Yes, AcedIt. It is a worthless debate. You are simply to naive to see it.
 
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