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Are you downshifting to lower gears while you are stopping? At 5 mph you should have the clutch pulled in and doing the final stop with just the brakes.

Eric


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2004 Honda Shadow VLX 600
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It always happens while in 1st gear, as I use the brakes to come to a stop. I haven’t tried holding the clutch. I will. Also it’s more like 2 mph. Just as I’m about to stop. I find it most odd that the rear wheel locks up.

Are you downshifting to lower gears while you are stopping? At 5 mph you should have the clutch pulled in and doing the final stop with just the brakes.

Eric


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It locks up because the engine is trying to turn the real wheel faster than two mph. That is why you have to pull in the clutch as you stop.

Eric


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70% of your braking power comes from your front brake. The rear brake should be used lightly. Also, you should be rolling to a stop with the clutch lever pulled in which will disengage your transmission. That will keep your engine from dying and your rear tire from screeching.

Practice, practice, practice the slow stuff. Starting, stopping, tight turns, etc. Those are the hard things to do on a motorcycle, but mastering those things will pay off in the long run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok I tried using my clutch and it worked. Thanks! Been riding about a week, so amateur mistake and Thank you Eric for the advice.

Are you downshifting to lower gears while you are stopping? At 5 mph you should have the clutch pulled in and doing the final stop with just the brakes.

Eric


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It locks up because the engine is trying to turn the real wheel faster than two mph. That is why you have to pull in the clutch as you stop.

Eric


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I find my '01 VLX has a relatively high first gear ratio compared to some other bikes I've owned. It really doesn't like to run below about 7 mph, especially when it is cold. I have to slip the clutch on takeoff from a stop when cold, or the engine will stall.

The same is true when slowing to a stop. The engine will stall below some road speed. For stopping, I will generally always be in neutral and coasting, or in gear but with the clutch pulled in if I anticipate wanting to pick up speed momentarily.

To explore the minimum speed of your bike, find a empty road or an alley, and, with an engine that is warmed up, putt putt along in first gear with the engine idling. Some machines won't do this if they don't have enough torque at idle, but my VLX will. It's not nearly as good at this as a machine like my Royal Enfield Classic 500, a big single cylinder. With that bike I can alley cruise at a brisk walk, and NO HANDS!. I can't take my hands off the bars of my VLX at low speeds, because the extreme rake makes the steering floppy when there's not enough gyroscopic stability coming from wheel rotation.

With a little brake applied, to slow down the machine, you can see just how slow you can go before the engine has had enough and stalls.

Stable slow speed running is handy for certain things, like motorcycle rodeo events where you have to throw a ball in a bucket while riding, or for riding in parades and heavy urban traffic.
 

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Ok I tried using my clutch and it worked... so amateur mistake
Let's get some of the mechanic down of two riding executions. One will be the coaster, the other will be the downshifter. Your bike, your parts, your wear and tear. I'm not suggesting either, I'm more showing the style and approach.

Shifter: Always pulling in lever to get to the next lower gear to the next.
Coaster: Stays in any gear and coasts to a stop.

Shifter: Strains one part after the other downshifting.
Coaster: Engine braker right up to taping the brakes to stop.

Shifter: Is never dead perfect in sync, but is blip driven wasting gas.
Coaster: Is in top gear, engine brakes with zip of a blip.

Shifter: Back to the not so perfect sync, and engine to wheel speed slices wear off the clutch plates.
Coaster: Hardly moves the lever till this side of stalling, or skidding to a stop.

Shifter: All that in and out of the trans mission gears under out of sync loads, means added wear.
Coaster: Where the coaster has shifted down from top gear to N right before it stops.

Shifter: Clutch wear is more in use is the abuse, and now clutch cable slack is loose as a goose.
Coaster: Haven't adjusted the slack since the day it was bought is like it came out of the crate that day.

Shifter: Shiftshitty is at the parts counter ordering parts to replace.
Coaster: Rides on by the dealership, waves and yells, See'ya Blippy!
 

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I highly, highly recommend that you sign up for the Motorcycle Safety Fundamentals riding course. Not only will it teach you the basics of how to ride your bike, in most states it will also gets you a fairly substantial insurance discount, plus the class's exam will take the place of your DMV's license test! It's a Win-Win-Win! I took it and learned oh so much.

Most local community colleges offer the class, as well as many of the larger motorcycle dealerships.
 

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2004 Honda Shadow VLX 600
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you. I had already planned to sign up at the local HD dealership. $350 for a 3 day course. It’s next available in mid September so I’m on my own for another 6 weeks. Will take permit test in 9 days. Currently studying Motorcycle Operator Manual.

I highly, highly recommend that you sign up for the Motorcycle Safety Fundamentals riding course. Not only will it teach you the basics of how to ride your bike, in most states it will also gets you a fairly substantial insurance discount, plus the class's exam will take the place of your DMV's license test! It's a Win-Win-Win! I took it and learned oh so much.

Most local community colleges offer the class, as well as many of the larger motorcycle dealerships.
 

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Thank you. I had already planned to sign up at the local HD dealership. $350 for a 3 day course. It’s next available in mid September so I’m on my own for another 6 weeks. Will take permit test in 9 days. Currently studying Motorcycle Operator Manual.
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation hosts classes that cost much less. Check them out. You may be able to find one that is available sooner
 

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I won a class from a drawing at the Great American Motorcycle Show several years ago...
I rode to north GA to the HD dealership what had the MSF classes, I signed up in the advanced rider class...
Two days 4 hours a day...
I did learn some things, BUT Mainly Refreshed my skills and awareness,
Dennis

Practice Practice Practice
 

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Let's get some of the mechanic down of two riding executions. One will be the coaster, the other will be the downshifter. Your bike, your parts, your wear and tear. I'm not suggesting either, I'm more showing the style and approach.

Shifter: Always pulling in lever to get to the next lower gear to the next.
Coaster: Stays in any gear and coasts to a stop.

Shifter: Strains one part after the other downshifting.
Coaster: Engine braker right up to taping the brakes to stop.

Shifter: Is never dead perfect in sync, but is blip driven wasting gas.
Coaster: Is in top gear, engine brakes with zip of a blip.

Shifter: Back to the not so perfect sync, and engine to wheel speed slices wear off the clutch plates.
Coaster: Hardly moves the lever till this side of stalling, or skidding to a stop.

Shifter: All that in and out of the trans mission gears under out of sync loads, means added wear.
Coaster: Where the coaster has shifted down from top gear to N right before it stops.

Shifter: Clutch wear is more in use is the abuse, and now clutch cable slack is loose as a goose.
Coaster: Haven't adjusted the slack since the day it was bought is like it came out of the crate that day.

Shifter: Shiftshitty is at the parts counter ordering parts to replace.
Coaster: Rides on by the dealership, waves and yells, See'ya Blippy!
I cannot completely agree with this. If you coast to a stop and then the situation changes, the light changes from red to green, then the coaster has to downshift multiple gears to find the right gear to accelerate again, whereas the shifter only has to let out the clutch and turn the throttle or if using engine braking while downshifting just turn the throttle.

Also with a motorcycle you have to shift through all the gears in order each way and you you cannot skip a gear like you can in an automotive transmission. So wear is building no matter which method you use.

In my opinion your example is valid if the rider does not know how to operate a manual transmission.

Eric


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2004 Honda Shadow VLX 600
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Watching some of Jerry Palladino's vids wouldn't be a waste of time. Jerry sure makes it look easy, he can make a big police bike dance like a ballerina.

And his vids aren't bad either. Less blaa blaa blaa than so many tubers, Jerry gets to the point.
ya I like Jerry Palladino. He was the first result in my first search ever, and I immediately subscribed and hit the bell. I like his no nonsense explanations.
 

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Phantom,
Let's cut to the chase and start at the 3:00 mark. At 3:13, I'm already looking way out ahead and know when to pull the trigger collecting gear heading for 1st, or if I need any gear, really. Rarely do I start from N to 1st on a dead stop; waiting. I am already in 1st.

The breakdown:
1. Clutch - No rub, no flub, only used for stops and go. This technique? Can't make you "Blip" the throttle. Thus the no rubbing down, can flub a step up or down.
2. Coast - No pad wearing down on the brakes. So as to cook them up to warp, or right at the very end grab the binders. Hardy warmed them up, meaning.
3. She Bang - The old N to 1st. For me, that's dead engine, in 1st before the engine starts, fire and go. That's a lot of dog to insert to bang, it still means round are the dogs to their one side, then equally matches insert lip loss, not machined out square; in other words to a C cut it once was..
4. Engine Hours - Lots of traffic, long minute lights, sometimes I even kill the engine way back, clutch in, key off, keep coasting to the end and stop. Then it's clutch out, foot stabbing to first with a dead engine. Then I wait for the yellow to turn so I know I have enough time to check the kill switch, hand resting on the top crown where the key is, light turns green, finger is holding the start button down, key is turned on-when the the vehicle in front starts to move, it's [last second] key on, hand moves to the left grip, clutch in, engine starts, how much time is off that engine x's every light.
5. No torque limiter spring, clutch pad, nor ring, no fork, nor dog, no ABS sing, were abused in this video. 🚦

I take that back. The toe jam took a little bite off the Redwings.

Signed,
The Clutch Me Not Club

 

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I cannot completely agree with this. If you coast to a stop and then the situation changes, the light changes from red to green, then the coaster has to downshift multiple gears to find the right gear to accelerate again, whereas the shifter only has to let out the clutch and turn the throttle or if using engine braking while downshifting just turn the throttle.

Also with a motorcycle you have to shift through all the gears in order each way and you you cannot skip a gear like you can in an automotive transmission. So wear is building no matter which method you use.

In my opinion your example is valid if the rider does not know how to operate a manual transmission.
@Bentone hasn't made the distinction between STOPPING, which is what I was talking about, and SLOWING, which is a quite different scenario. I have a hard time imagining that anyone wants to drive along at 2 mph, (but perhaps the OP does?).

When I'm SLOWING, which I need to do a LOT driving in Chicago rush hour traffic, I downshift a lot. It's quite possible to skip gears, in the sense that one pulls the clutch in and skips past to the next gear before re-engaging. 3rd to neutral isn't at all uncommon for my riding style, and 3rd to 1rst sees frequent use. I seldom use 4th on my VLX, the bike doesn't want 4th below about 42 mph, which is 7mph faster than the speed limit on the streets I'm riding. I'll ride 3rd comfortably from ~ 20 to 45 mph with this machine, which is a nice wide torque zone, considering it's a moderate 583 ccs, and well oversquare. Not having to shift constantly is a big plus when riding in traffic, in my opinion.

Skipping gears on upshifts is quite seldom appropriate on the other hand, although I have done it when I went from hard accelerating to moderate engine braking when the situation up ahead changed unexpectedly.

When I'm STOPPING, there's really no choice other than neutral or clutch pulled in. We all agree on this.

Technically, most clutches aren't designed to manage continuous duty rotational in the dis-engagement mechanism, so I don't press my luck by leaving the clutch pulled in at lights. If the cable or other mechanism breaks, while doing this, that can also ruin your day, especially if you are the kind of rider who likes everyone to hear his engine revving, or who doesn't keep a brake engaged at traffic control stops.
 
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