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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got a question about the pump and fuel pump relay , first it's a 2001 ace 759 deluxe a lil over 7,100 miles on it. It's been running good through town and a few exits on the highway. It doesn't sit very long,no more then 4-5 days tops at a time. Yesterday I took it to my Dr appointment about maybe 12-15 miles mostly highway. Ran fine,on my way home I got 3/4 of the way home before I get off the highway and it just dies. Didn't sputter or slow down just dies.i get off the road.let it cool off and won't start. pulled the air cleaner off and it would fire on starting fluid,kinda but sounded like crap. checked to see if it was the petcock plugged but it wasn't. I pulled the line off. Could kinda blow throw the filter but it's still connected to the pump. Now this happened last month , exactly the same thing only I just sat there for a lil while and it started up and ran fine.good as new. I've rode it since last month so, even a exit or two on the highway and back to and it's been ok.not this time,had to load it up and bring it home in a truck. I picked up a new filter,I'm sure that's not gonna be that easy. Lol my question is could the pump just be dead or plugged.also only had 30 miles or so on it with a full tank of gas. Before I order a new Honda pump and relay I plan on trying the Honda fuel filter, but I doubt it on that.but it needs done, can't even see through it, I'm not buying china stuff of ebay. I do want to try to hook up a fuel source straight to the main fuel line and see if it runs. I'm sure it probably will but I need to fix the problem. Does anyone know what color wires are on the relay off the top of there head ,I was gonna try to jump it and see if it works.test the pump. 150 for the pump ,80 for the relay and another 22 today on the filter. Would like to try later tonight or tomorrow so I can order the pump and relay it so I can get it by Tuesday or Wednesday. It's a real bummer. I do know that bike sat for a while when the original owner had it , but it was running good when I looked at it while it was at the shop getting the oil change and all that. If anyone could give me a few ideas I would really appreciate it big-time. Sorry for the long post , just wanted to give as much information as I could. I know I'm not the only one this happened to from the search I did here and online in general. Thanks in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Well that title doesn't make sense, I hate when these phones type something on there own. Especially when you don't catch it in time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Checked the relay as described in the Honda manual and it seems it's bad , bypassed that and went to the pump next.showed voltage going to the pump. I'm pretty sure it's dead , I do plan on pulling it out and hooking it up off the bike and seeing what happens. I've got a extra battery . How common is it for both to go bad at the same time , if the pump finally just quit could it have killed the relay at the same time? Electrical stuff isn't the easiest for me to understand. I was able to follow the book the best I could and from what I got with the meter the relay is shot. I did hook up a fuel source straight to the carb line and it fired up and ran good. After that I decided to go ahead and order the parts $245 , that hurts a lil but if it fixes it , it's worth every penny. I know I could have bypassed the relay but it's probably better in the long run to just fix it right. I just hope I got it figured out and there isn't something else wrong. Anyone think of any reason this isn't the problem
 

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2002, Shadow Spirit 1100
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I have an 1100 and haven't messed with the fuel pump. I hope you have it figured out. Enjoy the ride soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Kesanders.... They said parts should be there Wednesday at the earliest , hopefully I can have it fixed by next week. From the researching online sounds like it would be a real pain to change one out on a 1100,
 

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1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
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Some guys with 1100s leave the original pump and relocate the new one to a spot easier to work on.
 

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2001 Valkyrie I/S
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Not saying it isn't the fuel pump but when the bike just stops with no sputtering or anything I would be checking battery connections & ground connections before I replaced a fuel pump.
 

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1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
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We always recommend riding it to the failure point, shut it off and drain the fuel from the float bowl to see if it really is a lack of fuel issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't know, after I replaced the filter and jumped the relay I disconnected the outlet on the pump,had a full charge on the battery and cranked it 10 sec at a time ,took a break, cranked another 10 sec , took a break. A bunch a times nothing came out. I had the petcock on ,even tried reserve. I have plenty of gas coming out of the tank. I flipped it on with a jar under it while I was switching the filter. Even when I got it running with a funnel of gas feeding the main line to the carb,I left the jumper on the relay while I had it running. Not a drop of gas come out the outlet hose. I couldn't even feel the pump pulsate when I was cranking it over.




I know allot of guys went with a aftermarket pump and stuck it in there toolbox.from what I read anyway, lol I meant if you were going to replace the factory pump with OEM. Sounds like it would be a lot of fun.
 

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'83 VT750C
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Well, my fuel pump took out the relay while it was failing, but that was literally an explosive failure. You would have heard it. If anything, putting battery power straight across the pump should get you a clicking or some sort of sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Troy.. that's the plan today , if for some reason it is good and starts working what else could it be. Everything else works. If it was a electrical problem somewhere would it still start feeding gas directly in the line?
 

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Electrical shorts tend to cut power off from things, rather than send constant power to them. So if the pump powers on and the bike starts, let it run for a bit to see if anything changes. The pump should only run until back pressure occurs when the carb bowls are full.
 

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I got the idea someplace, that one can bypass the pump and filter and gravity feed from the tank directly to the carb(s). This may mean that one doesn't get access to the fuel that is lowest in the tank, and/or the reserve, the carbs are mounted quite high and the back end of the tank is quite low. One also won't have a filter in the line, unless added separately. I've been running my '96 1100 ACE, gravity fed, from a small hang tank for testing purposes.

TJ Brutal Customs states that they have done this, and I've seen a few folks here make this claim. Can The Fuel Pump Be Removed From My Bike? - TJ Brutal Customs Support

The fuel pump, as I understand it, is more there to implement fuel shutoff in the event of a wreck or tip-over, than because it's needed to deliver fuel.

The fuel pump "relay" is of the electronic variety. It may look peculiar when tested with a meter, depending on how the electronics inside have failed. I guess quite a few guys pull these off and run power direct when the relays fail, which eliminates the tipover safety function. I'd need to verify this, but I believe power to the fuel pump would still go off with the kill switch, even with the relay out of the picture, if one is satisfied with that level of safety. My relay seems to have issues with its connector blades being loose, as well as having crapped out.

Electronic systems are great, until they fail, especially if there are multiple points of failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Axman... If you did bypass the pump all together , and let it gravity feed I wonder how far you can go until the fuel level no longer feeds the carbs. I know it would depend on how you ride,speed & all that . I basically did the same thing you did when you were testing yours. Gravity feed it , fired right up and all seemed good. I couldn't hear the pump or feel it pulsating when I had the bike running . I'm sure I could gravity feed it now and be back to riding , might get a half gallon of riding or maybe 2 gal I don't know. How bad do I wanna ride my bike and take a chance on it runnin low and dying. It would have cost me 175 to get it towed where I was.luckily I was able to get some ramps and a few buddy's to help me load it up. Might not get that lucky next time. I'm tempted to give it a try and stay in the neighborhood .lol I'm not a rich person lol , I had to take that out of my new bike money. What's funny is , while I was on my way to pick it up, a guy finally got back to me about a bike I was interested in looking at. For 2 days I didn't hear from him and the day he answers me my bike was on the side of the highway.lol not really , I had pushed it off the exit into a parking lot but you get what I'm saying. Real sharp looking vtx 1800 c
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok , I just put 12 volts to the pump directly and nothing happened. So I would think the pump is shot. The battery read 12 volts before I tried it. Unless I'm doing something wrong let me know. I did just unplug it from the bikes wire harness and tested it like that.
 

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Axman... If you did bypass the pump all together , and let it gravity feed I wonder how far you can go until the fuel level no longer feeds the carbs.
I can think of a way to figure this out. Drain the tank through the reserve petcock, until no more comes out. Connect the tank direct to the carb(s). Attach drain hoses to the carb bowls, open the float bowl drains, and drain the the carb bowls out. Leave the drain screws open and put the bowl drain tubes into a container. Observe these hoses effluent end as you add fuel to the tank, quart by quart or liter by liter to the tank. When gas first starts to flow out the overflow hose, however much gas you already put in the tank is the amount that will remain in the bottom of the tank, and not gravity feed. You should be sitting on the machine when you do this, or force it to squat an equivalent amount. You can force a squat while working on a bike by using a ratchet strap to pull it down. Something like a piece of pipe, under a piece of plywood, under the rear tire gives you something to pull down to.

What's funny is , while I was on my way to pick it up, a guy finally got back to me about a bike I was interested in looking at. For 2 days I didn't hear from him and the day he answers me my bike was on the side of the highway.lol not really , I had pushed it off the exit into a parking lot but you get what I'm saying. Real sharp looking vtx 1800 c
If it was a seller from Craigslist, or Facebook Marketplace, it seems like most are not very focused on selling their vehicles. I've had sellers make an appointment, then not be at their house when I got there, if I was lucky enough to get an address in the first place.

It sucks to break down. I ride and drive fixer-uppers and I've pushed my bikes many a mile, but not as many as my buddy with the Ironhead Harley. Once he gets it dialed in, I think it will be reliable. My last breakdown was about a year ago, during the pandemic shutdown. I was 3 miles from home, and had a puncture on my Royal Enfield. I didn't have a spare tube or tire tools with me. The engine ran fine, but I didn't want to ride on the flat, so I started the engine, and walked alongside the bike on the sidewalk, slipping the clutch a little to try to walk as fast as it wants to go in 1rst gear. If the cops took interest, I'd hit the kill switch and I'd be pushing, but it was more like a self propelled lawnmower.

I wonder if I invented a new thing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Axman ... I really do appreciate the time and effort coming up with that idea , lol but I think that might be just a lil more work then I would like to do right now. I would probably just stay close to the house and top it off after every 10-15 miles , maybe 20 after the 2nd time. Lol would definitely be a lil easier. Plus since I already paid for the pump , I can't return it after the ordered it. Which is B S , even if I do not leave the store I'm stuck with it.


As far as the seller on Craigslist , to be fair it was a email , and it was getting late the first time , then I sent another the day after in the evening. It is what it is , could have been busy.
 

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Most private sellers aren’t all that focussed. Many are older, like my father, and if they check their messages once a week, it’s a miracle. I once had a guy get back to me two MONTHS after I asked about something, but I had already bought one by then. Now, if you have a new pump, and the old one is lifeless when you give it power… Why aren’t you hooking the new one up again? Though if you went gravity-fed, you wouldn’t have to be THAT studious about sticking around the house. Vacuum helps a little to feed the engine as well. The pump is there more for consistency than anything. It’s a Honda, so it’s always supposed to work!

Ax, I’d hate to meet the cop that would begrudge you walking the bike with the engine while it’s broken down like that… 😉
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Troy , if I had the pump I would have installed it already, trust me . Lol I bought a Honda because there reliable and always heard good things about them , then this happens. So much for Honda reliability huh , j/k
Seems like there isn't a way to really test the relay , I've tested others in the past putting 12v to them and hearing it click. Unless I'm not looking in the right spot is it possible to test the relay by itself , not hooked up to the bike.
 

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The relay is an electronic style so not as easy to test as a regular coil type relay.
But can be done.
 

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