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Harley is in some trouble
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Interesting article; since I'm reshuffling my portfolio this week I'll take a look at HD at the current bargain price (today $59.96). For the long term, though, I'm not so sure. If HD is banking on the Asia market to keep growing it may be fooling itself with the hope that the Chinese or Koreans won't start building big-inch cruiser clones at 1/3 the price. I'm betting they will, and that their governments will provide the subtle protectionism they need to counter the Harley invasion.
On the other hand (it helps to have a lot of hands when considering matter like these :lol
those gov'ts may think it useful to have a bunch of Harleys roaring around, a highly visible but small-scale exhibition of economic openness: "See, we LOVE your motorcycles." Then they can save their real protectionism for important things like rice and steel.
On the OTHER hand...oops, can't type now.
On the other hand (it helps to have a lot of hands when considering matter like these :lol
those gov'ts may think it useful to have a bunch of Harleys roaring around, a highly visible but small-scale exhibition of economic openness: "See, we LOVE your motorcycles." Then they can save their real protectionism for important things like rice and steel.On the OTHER hand...oops, can't type now.
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Hey MikeB..
I checked and compared HOG to HMC (Honda) over five and ten year periods and HD doesn't have the long term growth pattern that Honda does.
I might speculate wiht HD on the short term but go with Honda on the long term.
I checked and compared HOG to HMC (Honda) over five and ten year periods and HD doesn't have the long term growth pattern that Honda does.
I might speculate wiht HD on the short term but go with Honda on the long term.
Hey MikeB
We are like peas in a pod, you and me! I also re-shuffled my portfolio this week. Well, kinda, anyway. I took it out of my wallet and gave it to Trish behind the bar in the Trafford Arms. She examined it with the air of a seasoned professional, pronounced it good and gave me my change.
Now I have to wait till next week when Sharon gives me next week's spending portfolio
Collector
We are like peas in a pod, you and me! I also re-shuffled my portfolio this week. Well, kinda, anyway. I took it out of my wallet and gave it to Trish behind the bar in the Trafford Arms. She examined it with the air of a seasoned professional, pronounced it good and gave me my change.
Now I have to wait till next week when Sharon gives me next week's spending portfolio
Collector
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889 Posts
Good news for me is I dont have a bike loan I cant pay.....never had a bike loan....I dont own any HD stock.......and I just found out that I got a bike thats not being made anymore.......so its detestined to be a classic if I dont ride the $hit out of it before then.....Paulie said:
damn this is a good day.....
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The title of this thread is totally disingenuous IMHO.
The article ACTUALLY puts forth the notion that HD stock is a GOOD BUY right now and is poised to make serious inroads into foreign markets.
The fact that the stock is priced low right now is stock market:101.
Buy low, sell high.
HD's numbers are all in the right direction - positive growth, still in the black (profitable), and still paying generous dividends.
I detest much of what HD stands for. But I'll call a spade a spade - they're hardly a company in trouble.
(Unless you consider the fact their average buyers age is almost 50) :shock:
The article ACTUALLY puts forth the notion that HD stock is a GOOD BUY right now and is poised to make serious inroads into foreign markets.
The fact that the stock is priced low right now is stock market:101.
Buy low, sell high.
HD's numbers are all in the right direction - positive growth, still in the black (profitable), and still paying generous dividends.
I detest much of what HD stands for. But I'll call a spade a spade - they're hardly a company in trouble.
(Unless you consider the fact their average buyers age is almost 50) :shock:
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If they weren't so darned expensive I'd have one because I like them. But I won't buy one when I can get more bike for half the money with a Honda. Despite the financial reports, people are going to keep buying HD for the status symbol. The 80's sucked for them because of AMF's piss-poor manufacturing not because of anything else to speak of.
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I was pretty amazed by how many Harleys I saw in Japan.
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Most of the bikes I saw, however, had smaller engine displacements that what we see here in the U.S.
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http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30382&highlight=japan
Most of the bikes I saw, however, had smaller engine displacements that what we see here in the U.S.
http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30382&highlight=japan
:roll:Collector said:Hey MikeB
We are like peas in a pod, you and me! I also re-shuffled my portfolio this week. Well, kinda, anyway. I took it out of my wallet and gave it to Trish behind the bar in the Trafford Arms. She examined it with the air of a seasoned professional, pronounced it good and gave me my change.
Now I have to wait till next week when Sharon gives me next week's spending portfolio
Collector
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549 Posts
LOL!!!!Collector said:Hey MikeB
We are like peas in a pod, you and me! I also re-shuffled my portfolio this week. Well, kinda, anyway. I took it out of my wallet and gave it to Trish behind the bar in the Trafford Arms. She examined it with the air of a seasoned professional, pronounced it good and gave me my change.
Now I have to wait till next week when Sharon gives me next week's spending portfolio
Collector
i'd truly miss your wit if you ever stopped posting on this (or the other forum).
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1,083 Posts
Yeah, HD's not in trouble. Neither is Ford, GM and Chrysler. HD is riding the nostalgia wave right now, how many young guys do you see on HD's? Their market is passing away as I write this. Oh ****, wait a minute, all those guys are my age. Start buying nursing home stock instead of HD stock at least that is a growing market.
Some day they will make a movie about Mr. Honda
You meet the nicest people on a Honda?
I actually did read a couple of books..
Crap, even my lawnmower has a Honda engine.
Someday they will make a movie about the PR guy that saved Harley.
Can you find even one non-rider that collects Honda T-shirts?
Hmmm... do they make Honda t-shirts?
Harley will die out as the world changes, but not go away.
The younger people, they could care less.
Made in USA.
Made in Japan.
Made in China.
Made in who cares.
You meet the nicest people on a Honda?
I actually did read a couple of books..
Crap, even my lawnmower has a Honda engine.
Someday they will make a movie about the PR guy that saved Harley.
Can you find even one non-rider that collects Honda T-shirts?
Hmmm... do they make Honda t-shirts?
Harley will die out as the world changes, but not go away.
The younger people, they could care less.
Made in USA.
Made in Japan.
Made in China.
Made in who cares.
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190 Posts
"disingenuous"? :roll:
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disingenuous
One entry found for disingenuous.
Main Entry: dis·in·gen·u·ous
Pronunciation: "dis-in-'jen-y&-w&s, -yü-&s-
Function: adjective
: lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ly adverb
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ness noun
What's the trouble?
One entry found for disingenuous.
Main Entry: dis·in·gen·u·ous
Pronunciation: "dis-in-'jen-y&-w&s, -yü-&s-
Function: adjective
: lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ly adverb
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ness noun
What's the trouble?
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209 Posts
Circles,Circles said:
It wasn't wasn't too long ago that Model T's and model A's were all the rage, you couldn't touch one for a Kings ransome. Today you can't hardly give them away! Everyone wants Mustangs, Camaros, 442's, ect. Tomorrow it'll be Talons, Jettas, 350Z's. Harley's time is limited. I read a few years back that a major portion of their revenue came from merchandise. They are finding innovative ways to turn a profit with substandard technology, and if they continue using their same method, their time may run out sooner than later.
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190 Posts
Nothing really ... it (and the word "disinfranchised") just usually make me chuckle when I hear them, and just hadn't seen either in print until now
I'm afraid Harley's troubles go even further.
It appears they have laid their first egg:
http://www.coolclimbing.com/2007harleydavidsonroadking03.htm
The problem is so bad that a friend at work canceled his HD order and got, a GoldWing.
So bad that another friend at work had HD add an oil cooling tank, do a re-map and leave off some of the fairing on his 2007 in hopes that the bike would run less than oven temperature.
Problems are:
1. Overheating, big time. So hot that the rear cylinder will burn your leg without touching it. No fix yet.
2. Surging. This can be corrected with a re-map.
3. Loud fifth gear. Whining, pinging, clanging. There is no fix for this yet.
If you drill down into the site listed above, you will be thankfull you own a Honda.
HD should have stuck with the engines that had been working for years instead of reinventing themselves.
It appears they have laid their first egg:
http://www.coolclimbing.com/2007harleydavidsonroadking03.htm
The problem is so bad that a friend at work canceled his HD order and got, a GoldWing.
So bad that another friend at work had HD add an oil cooling tank, do a re-map and leave off some of the fairing on his 2007 in hopes that the bike would run less than oven temperature.
Problems are:
1. Overheating, big time. So hot that the rear cylinder will burn your leg without touching it. No fix yet.
2. Surging. This can be corrected with a re-map.
3. Loud fifth gear. Whining, pinging, clanging. There is no fix for this yet.
If you drill down into the site listed above, you will be thankfull you own a Honda.
HD should have stuck with the engines that had been working for years instead of reinventing themselves.
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10,153 Posts
Harley will be fine. Many forget this is the Moniker on those AMF bikes.
The name is far to romantic for many people. It's a club more then a bike and the actual bike is mostly irrelevant when you take a close look at the technology compared to Japanese fare. People will put up with a lot to stay in the club regardless of the bikes and their well documented "issues."
Otherwise they would have been out of business long ago. I think people who protest and demean HD are still having Honda validation issues and paint HD with the same old tired issues which they have had for years. Overheating, leaking, Rattles and shakes, ftc. Yet HD is selling and making more HDs then ever.
Enjoy your bike. You chose it over all others.
The name is far to romantic for many people. It's a club more then a bike and the actual bike is mostly irrelevant when you take a close look at the technology compared to Japanese fare. People will put up with a lot to stay in the club regardless of the bikes and their well documented "issues."
Otherwise they would have been out of business long ago. I think people who protest and demean HD are still having Honda validation issues and paint HD with the same old tired issues which they have had for years. Overheating, leaking, Rattles and shakes, ftc. Yet HD is selling and making more HDs then ever.
Enjoy your bike. You chose it over all others.
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