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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Now with more time to "be at home"... I started to disassemble my bike to search for a long time problem, I neet to get to the Spring Damper (part n. 11), I took out the rear wheel to start.

But, I would like to know if you have some practice doing it... what else do I need to take out? seems that I have to remove the swingarm first.

Hope you can guide me a little just not to dissamble too much my old baby.

Thanks!

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1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
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VT 1100c 1994
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just a question, hat the engine rear drive case assembly to be lubed seperately or is lubed by engine oil (VT 1100)? thank you, flo
 

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1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
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If you mean the angle drive as shown above, that is all included with the engine and transmission oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes the rear axle has to come out and the swing arm is the best way to get more clearance for the shaft and U joint. But I am not sure if you will have to split the transmission case to get to the internal spring and gear assembly.
Here are some good parts if you need them.
As always, thanks for you kindful responses! :)

You wont believe it but that used part of 26us importing it costs total 120us (strange economy here... REALLY strange), but will see what I need as soon as I can dissamble mine.

So, some more questions :)... to take the U joint I might have to bleed some engine oil first, am I right? or that is what you not sure if I have to split the transmission?

In pic 2 and 4, I have inside an allem wrench. In pic 4 there is outside the allen some kind of dented bolt (that I have just borrowed from a friend, its hand made), what do I have to loosen up first? the inside allen or the outside stuff? (long time ago, we wanted to lubricate this axel but we couldn loosen it up... now I am having the same hard time... it wont budge an inch), any hint?
Am I using the wrong tool? (I know its hand made and the outside bolt its a little wasted :-( also...
(there I spry it with some lubricant and some prayers each night)

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Thanks!!!
 

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The outer nut in picture 5 with the notches is a lock nut. You have to loosen that one first with that tool,and then you can unscrew the inner portion. I put a scribe mark on mine to get it back in the same position. It is supposed to be at a certain torque, but as long as it is free to swing up and down,but not be loose, it will be fine with just a bit of preload.
No need to drain engine oil until you take off the angle drive itself. Then some oil may come out.
Not sure if the trans will have to be opened to get the inside gears out. -- ???
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The outer nut in picture 5 with the notches is a lock nut. You have to loosen that one first with that tool,and then you can unscrew the inner portion. I put a scribe mark on mine to get it back in the same position. It is supposed to be at a certain torque, but as long as it is free to swing up and down,but not be loose, it will be fine with just a bit of preload.
No need to drain engine oil until you take off the angle drive itself. Then some oil may come out.
Not sure if the trans will have to be opened to get the inside gears out. -- ???
Thanks Switfy!

I couldnt loose the lock nut... so, I took out the coolant pipes and could disassemble until this point...

When I try to loose this bolt (it broke :p will worry about it later, here found a good tutorial about how to remove a broken bolt) this part might have never been opened since 1986, the bolt was really locked. A friend of mine told me (later) that hitting the bolt with a hammer softly while unscrewing it sometime helps to get it loose without breaking.

Pic nr.5 is the part nr.4 in the diagram, there is also the bolt that got broken (fortunatelly it is not holding part nr.4)

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Question: Part nr.4 it is just rust/sticked with a gasket?
Because it seems not to come out easily, any idea? if it is just age stucked will try some more... but I dont know if I have to disassemble something else first.

Thanks!

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That is what I am not sure about, taking the pinion gear and spring assembly out. Check chapter 13 of the manual for good pictures. If you don't have one go here and look at the 1983-1985 700 manual since it is the same drive assembly.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Maybe this will give you an idea. View attachment 285894
Thanks! Yes really good idea of the right tools but unfortunately hard to get here. Anyway, it was not necessary to unmount the axel to take out the output gear cover! Now the problem is that to get to the spring I might have to open right side crank case and unmount the clutch because there is a lock in the other side of the rod if not no way to get to the spring damper :-(

No luck?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That is what I am not sure about, taking the pinion gear and spring assembly out. Check chapter 13 of the manual for good pictures. If you don't have one go here and look at the 1983-1985 700 manual since it is the same drive assembly.

Thanks! I have the manual but don't gives too much info about getting to the spring damper, seems you have to dismount the engine from frame or at least disassemble the whole clutch to get to lock that prevents the spring damper and it's rod to get out :-(

I can say d#amn mothflying spring damper ?
 

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info about getting to the spring damper,

seems you have to dismount the engine from frame

at least disassemble the whole clutch to get to lock that prevents the spring damper and it's rod to get out :-(
To remove #17 and #21 in the first pic the clutch basket in it's entirety has to be removed.

The #17 bolt is what secures that end of the output drive gear (damper) shaft to the right crankcase half.

#10 in the pic, the output/damper shaft gear, is too large to be removed through the hole in the left crankcase half. The only way it is coming out is with a complete engine disassembly.

If you removed the #17 bolt/washer from the right crankcase half you can pull the output gear/damper shaft out of the left crankcase half.... but....
#20, #12, & #10 are going to fall off the shaft and into the bottom of the crankcase housings. That would be a heck of a thing to be able to orientate all 3 of those parts correctly with the crankcase halves still bolted together.

For a complete disassembly and reassembly on your engine just the price of the required gaskets can be pricey.

Oh, when I reference the #'s in this post I'm talking about the parts schematic in the first post of this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
To remove #17 and #21 in the first pic the clutch basket in it's entirety has to be removed.

The #17 bolt is what secures that end of the output drive gear (damper) shaft to the right crankcase half.

#10 in the pic, the output/damper shaft gear, is too large to be removed through the hole in the left crankcase half. The only way it is coming out is with a complete engine disassembly.

If you removed the #17 bolt/washer from the right crankcase half you can pull the output gear/damper shaft out of the left crankcase half.... but....
#20, #12, & #10 are going to fall off the shaft and into the bottom of the crankcase housings. That would be a heck of a thing to be able to orientate all 3 of those parts correctly with the crankcase halves still bolted together.

For a complete disassembly and reassembly on your engine just the price of the required gaskets can be pricey.

Oh, when I reference the #'s in this post I'm talking about the parts schematic in the first post of this thread.
Thank you ^2 very much for your kind help! I was just giving up and sending it to a "real" mechanic (seems I found one experienced with my model, really hard to get a good mechanic here, most of the love to talk but then they unscrew a bolt with an axe)

So... I have new gaskets for the right crankcase and clutch cover, they are new so wont break hopefully. If I understood you right (I know no claims later :)) , I can take the spring damper out without complete engine disassembly/unmounting. Just have to be carefull and insert a smaller rod inside the part no. 8 (first pic) so it can hold the other parts you pointed me (while taking out output geat/damper) that would be a hell to recover from the bottom if they fall.
 

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1) If I understood you right, I can take the spring damper out without complete engine disassembly/unmounting.

2) Just have to be carefull and insert a smaller rod inside the part no. 8 (first pic) so it can hold the other parts you pointed me (while taking out output geat/damper)
1) Correct

2) Correct....and don't let them fall off of the smaller rod during all the finagling on reassembly. The thrust washer and bushing have to be oriented correctly....or else....it's a sad day in the neighborhood.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sebadamus,

Curiosity makes me ask:

Why is the spring damper suspect on your bike?
Oh dear, now I fell like when a very religious fanatic person is asked "tell me the holy word, please..." ?

Long story short (this started 3/4 years ago) ... bike has a lack of power between 2000/3000 rpm (its like when you run at low speed at a wrong high gear trying to accelerate), at every gear while runing on road (if you put it on the stand you wont notice the problem, so might be something that happens only when it has to push, normal duty)

The forum have helped me a lot to search for a solution, but I know its hard first this is not my native language and I am no mechanic (I just have some idea)

Here where I started, looking if it was carb problem (almost rebuid carbs, no difference)

Then another mechanic here 'thought' the lack of power was part no. 11 spring damper, was not pushing hard enough part no. 9 into part no. 10 (here first post with diagram) so it skips and produce the problem.

So, here I am, not giving up (kind of stubborn now that I think ?, might have sold it but its my first bike.)

Thanks for asking.
 

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Sebadamus,

I read through all of the threads that you linked about your symptoms and problems. I watched the attached videos.

I have not read anything, or seen/heard anything in your videos, that says/sounds like a problem with your spring damper connection.

I'm still wondering about the post from one of your previous threads about a 'mechanic' removed the rear wheel and saw a shiny spot of the cross-shaft that the spring damper rides on. That's impossible. Maybe some info was lost in translation???, I don't know. Several of the folks trying to help you with the issues mentioned that it was highly unlikely/improbable that the damper connection was a factor.

Having rebuilt several of these VT engines I can assure you that the only possible way that the damper cam would ever be a problem is if the spring snapped in half. That just isn't happening. They are stout.

If the damper cam ears were jumping in and out of the slots on the final driven gear the resulting jarring and metallic banging would leave no doubt (even with loud exhaust) of the location the sound was coming from.

It's always so hard to try to help and troubleshoot a problem from words showing up on a computer screen. What would have taken 2 minutes to diagnose in person winds up taking weeks, months, years, on a computer screen. Some problems have a definitive pattern to them...some...not so much.
 

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That spring assembly looks so rugged I would think it would take so much to damage it, I was hoping he would find something elsewhere. Maybe a damaged tooth on the rear diff gears, or a stripped spline on the driveshaft or the rear wheel splines. But even those would be a far fetched happening. Maybe a clatter from the one -way clutch or the damper gear on the clutch basket springs broken.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sebadamus,

I read through all of the threads that you linked about your symptoms and problems. I watched the attached videos.
You are a crazy one my friend! thanks! hope your eyes wont bleed after reading me! Thanks.

I have not read anything, or seen/heard anything in your videos, that says/sounds like a problem with your spring damper connection.
Take in mind that with videos its hard to figure out, and also to express myself. I only can "trust" what I am told by a mechanic that rides the bike and recommends "hey, I think it would be...", so then I try the forum and describe what they tell. Unfortunatelly I am no mechanic, I can disassemble and assemble (kind of like it, have a good memory and I am very carefull), I am a d#mn IT programmer guy :p... and I really hate when I see another IT guy taking because its FREE without thinking, maybe I had bad luck... bad timing with mechanics.

The most accurate description of the problem is the one I told that seems riding in a too high gear for the speed and you accelerate, the bike clac clac clac clac, like give little stops/bumps, after that RPM just runs fine!

I'm still wondering about the post from one of your previous threads about a 'mechanic' removed the rear wheel and saw a shiny spot of the cross-shaft that the spring damper rides on. That's impossible.
Thats what I am talking about, I realize precisely what you pointed when I started to read the diagrams and started to disassemly myself (its really sad when you realize the truth), I can tell you some other stories (I have a Seat Leon FR, once the ABS light started to show up, bring the car to a "sport car high end car mechanic"... bullshit! after he "did" the job (just reseting the error) and telling he had to "fix/weld some fusebox connections", I took out the fusebox to know see what was welded... and nothing, just original factory fusebox with spider webs never opened!.

Maybe some info was lost in translation???, I don't know. Several of the folks trying to help you with the issues mentioned that it was highly unlikely/improbable that the damper connection was a factor.
Yup, I read it and understood it... and I test/try every diagnose forum guys kindly gave, but couldnt get to the problem, so... my last chance was the damper spring. If I have to get to a new mechanic... I would have to go with a gun telling "hello, this gun detects cheaters and talk because its free mechanics, please be good!"

Having rebuilt several of these VT engines I can assure you that the only possible way that the damper cam would ever be a problem is if the spring snapped in half. That just isn't happening. They are stout.

If the damper cam ears were jumping in and out of the slots on the final driven gear the resulting jarring and metallic banging would leave no doubt (even with loud exhaust) of the location the sound was coming from.
This "mechanic" told that if the spring got weak, it might skip and it would be necesary to add some washers or a new spring (that cant be found here)

Thanks, you are giving me some good point here! I still havent disassembly right crankcase to get to the spring, and I think I will stop here, following your hint. Dont want to take out the clutch just to see there is no problem with the spring.

It's always so hard to try to help and troubleshoot a problem from words showing up on a computer screen. What would have taken 2 minutes to diagnose in person winds up taking weeks, months, years, on a computer screen. Some problems have a definitive pattern to them...some...not so much.
I know, I try the best to express myself and add videos knowing its hard to diagnose... and forum users like swifty2014, RONW, Phil, CoreyP, CSRoad, George R. Ewing, and you I am really thankful (If you have a computer virus or problem, just PM me :geek:)

I will go to my last "seems to be good" mechanic, I found near home as soon as the pandemic ends (but here is just starting to show up and politicians and gov people in my country are something you WONT BELIEVE :poop:)

Sorry if I have spammed the forum, hope at least that pics and videos help someone else.

Thanks again!
 
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