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That just sucks. They're thieves, first and foremost. If they are injured during the act of thieving, including getting away, so be it. I say pursue. There's far too much "they'll get what's coming to them", new age crap and not enough PUNISHMENT these days.

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This subject has been debated at some length on a British forum I frequent. Frankly it is getting to the point where I wonder exactly what we have a police force for, other than to prosecucte white collar crimes that would have been the subject of some alternative disciplinary action in the past.

In England we have sadly reached the point where criminals have more rights that victims, or perhaps I should say that they know their rights better than their victims. What with that and the pervasive compensation culture, it is becoming an increasingly depressing place to live with litle or no sign of improvement.

And underpinning it all is the European Court of Human Rights, the Human Rights Act, and a civil and criminal justice sytem in crisis where barristers (attourneys to you guys) earn huge sums of money at the expense of the public purse.

At the moment, as a motorcyclist, I pay fully comprehensive insurance on my bike at about $340 per year (equivalent), road tax at $130 per year (statutory charge, required by law) and I have to have it safety tested every year at $68 (charge last year). For my car, the insurance is around $950 (equivalent) and the road tax $330 annually. The annual safety test costs the same. So I have to pay almost $2000 for the bike and the car in insurance and statutory costs before I can even ride/drive anywhere. Fuel tax is astonishing. And now the scumbags who run the country want to introduce 'road pricing' where we would all pay per mile driven.

Would the last one out of the door please turn the light out. :lol:

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My cousin, whom after 31 years on the force, is about to retire from the deputy police chiefs job in one of Canada’s major cities. He has said for the better part of 20 years, that as a Canadian, if you really want rights, break the law and get caught. He was not being facetious. If someone breaks into your house, and then the dog bites them, they can and DO sue you. We had an incident In Canada where some one had broken into a jewelry shop, then got cut very badly on is way out of the broken window and actually used the security tapes as evidence in his law suite. The UK sound rational compared to that. :shock:
 

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Dragoon said:
My cousin, whom after 31 years on the force, is about to retire from the deputy police chiefs job in one of Canada’s major cities. He has said for the better part of 20 years, that as a Canadian, if you really want rights, break the law and get caught. He was not being facetious. If someone breaks into your house, and then the dog bites them, they can and DO sue you. We had an incident In Canada where some one had broken into a jewelry shop, then got cut very badly on is way out of the broken window and actually used the security tapes as evidence in his law suite. The UK sound rational compared to that. :shock:
Dragoon

In the county of Norfolk we had a loony recluse who lived in a run down farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. He had been burgled many times and so had taken to going to bed with his shotgun.

One fatal night, two light-fingered 'loveable rogues' broke into his house to steal his few remaining possessions. He shot and killed one and badly injured the other. He was locked up for manslaughter and the local gypsy community, from whence the 'loveable rogues' came, sent him death threats.

Brendon Fearon, the one who didn't get killed, was allowed to sue Martin for injuries received. Apparently they were so bad that he couldn't walk properly (although he was photographed riding a bicycle), he was frightened by loud noises, and his erectile function was diminished. Good thing too; God help us that this moron should breed!

I am not a proponent of gun ownership, but the fact remains that if Martin had telephoned the police and told them he had intruders, they would have told him to lock himself safely in a room until the intruders had left. Then, a couple of weeks later, they might have turned up to take a statement.

It's plain bonkers on a stick!

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What I find especially annoying is that a lot of laws and rights in North America were based on English common law and further refined by the American Constitution. Now England is fast becoming the exact opposite where no one has rights, except those that are 'assigned' by the gov't, and then only to the privileged or the criminals. The goal appears to be to chip away at free society until people not only allow, but expect the gov't to effectively run their lives. Canada, and various states seem to want to follow in that direction.

I'm all for protecting children, but if you're old enough to volunteer to fight for your country (and possilbly be injured or die in the process) why should the gov't have the 'privilege' to dictate whether you can drink, whether you should have to wear a seatbelt or a helmet, or how big a motorcycle engine you can have?
 

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It's plain bonkers on a stick!

Agreed.
However, we need to recognize (for Collector, recognise)why the laws are there to begin with.
To protect the innocent, the minority...from a mob mentality...majority rule.
So there are obvious abuses by criminal made, that much we can see.
What we fail to see is the innocent person that was protected by the very same laws.

What I think we all need is a judiciary with a degree in common sense as well as law.
 

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am not a proponent of gun ownership, but the fact remains that if Martin had telephoned the police and told them he had intruders, they would have told him to lock himself safely in a room until the intruders had left. Then, a couple of weeks later, they might have turned up to take a statement.

It's plain bonkers on a stick!
It is a commonly known fact amongst those of us in the security industry ( I was years ago), that folks will be robed of stuff worth next to nothing, like a 20 year old TV, and then in 45 days, they are robbed again, of all the new stuff that their insurance replaced new. This is true for cars especially in places like Canada where we have replacement value policies. I had a ten year old bike stolen, it was a classic to me and worth nothing to anybody who didn’t know about bikes, but they took the chance that I had replacement value, which I did. They broke in again about 2 months later to supposedly steal the new bike, but I had yet to replace it. They were caught on camera this time around and arrested. I never got my classic YICS Seca 650 special edition back. Some how I cant seem to find replacement insurance down here in SoCal.
 
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Oh what a can of worms I could open from this

I could suggest that the average low life crimminal who would steal your possesions and rape your daughter has more rights in the eyes of a liberal slanted court then the innocent babe in the womb

I could allude that the average dope induced flag burner has more rights in the eyes of the media then does that student who was found with a
( GASP )
bible in class

Of course all of that would be utterly politically incorrect. Everyone one of course knows that sniveling cowardly criminals need their rights. Everyone one knows that brain dead morons who cannot form structured sentences must be allowed to defame and burn the flag because that is the only way they can communicate.

Some of you may have watched Jay Leno recently and saw Margaret and John, owners of Four Seasons a small neighborhood convience store here in Manchester. they are in their eighties yet they will not wait for the cops to come and they refuse to take being victims laying down. When thugs threatened Margaret with a bat as they attempted to rob them, John got his metal bat out and Margaret told the scum the plain truth..GO GET A JOB.

Therein lays the problem, we have lied to our fellow humans, we have told them that it is ok to slack off, just get by, live by the lowest common denominator, no one cares, no one will hold you accountable..wrong, as long as there are Johns and Margarets out there you WILL be held accountable!
 

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I'm having trouble articulating myself, but...

This is all so crazy. To me, it's telling criminals that their actions aren't wrong. If a cop isn't going to even try to chase and stop a criminal, then what is that besides condoning the act and what job am I paying this guy to do?

I understand they don't want the guy to kill himself as he's riding away on a stolen dirt bike, but that thief threw away his rights as soon as he broke the law. As long as they don't run him over in a squad car, I don't see how it could be their fault. I hate the lawsuit society that we're building these days. This is in the same vein of stupid as "McDonald's made me fat." No it didn't, YOU made you fat!
 
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downinit25i said:
I'm having trouble articulating myself, but...

This is all so crazy. To me, it's telling criminals that their actions aren't wrong. If a cop isn't going to even try to chase and stop a criminal, then what is that besides condoning the act and what job am I paying this guy to do?

I understand they don't want the guy to kill himself as he's riding away on a stolen dirt bike, but that thief threw away his rights as soon as he broke the law. As long as they don't run him over in a squad car, I don't see how it could be their fault. I hate the lawsuit society that we're building these days. This is in the same vein of stupid as "McDonald's made me fat." No it didn't, YOU made you fat!
Did we not have a good samaritan law a few years back that was enacted in a few states( which was the basis for the final episode of Seinfeld )

Is not allowing a criminal to get away aiding and abetting ?

Seems to me that is one were to speak of lawsuits that these folks would have a valid case against the police themselves at the very least and more to the point it seems that there would be very good grounds to find theses officers criminally liable.. imagine that jailing cops for not doing there job..what a concept!
 

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Hmm it's been a good 200 years since the crown had it's nose thumbed at by us yanks. Sounds like you Brits might need to get on your steel horses and ride again. :wink:
 

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I don't wish to offend any lawyer types out there, but to me it seems that this whole situation stems from the fact that there is money to be made. Greed drives people to prey on others, be it victims of crimes or whatever. I feel what we need is a penalty for bringing rediculous lawsuits on behalf of thugs and criminals. Maybe it's just the anger stirred up inside me from hearing about this sort of crazy injustice, but thats how it seems to me.
 

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Seems to me that is one were to speak of lawsuits that these folks would have a valid case against the police themselves at the very least and more to the point it seems that there would be very good grounds to find theses officers criminally liable.. imagine that jailing cops for not doing there job..what a concept!
Stardate 01/25/07

Two ICE officers are sitting in jail for shooting an illegal after he was found crossing the border with a truck full of marijuana. Local accounts (from here in San Diego, site of the atrocity.) are that when he was stopped, he tried to ram the officer who was standing in front of him. He was warned to stop and as he left his car and headed back towards the border, he took a non fatal bullet to the leg.

Both face life sentences. What incentive does anybody have to join ICE let alone do the job once they have. Then there is the WBC ( the Phelps family and their 1st amendment rights), need I say any more?
 
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Dragoon said:
Seems to me that is one were to speak of lawsuits that these folks would have a valid case against the police themselves at the very least and more to the point it seems that there would be very good grounds to find theses officers criminally liable.. imagine that jailing cops for not doing there job..what a concept!
Stardate 01/25/07

Two ICE officers are sitting in jail for shooting an illegal after he was found crossing the border with a truck full of marijuana. Local accounts (from here in San Diego, site of the atrocity.) are that when he was stopped, he tried to ram the officer who was standing in front of him. He was warned to stop and as he left his car and headed back towards the border, he took a non fatal bullet to the leg.

Both face life sentences. What incentive does anybody have to join ICE let alone do the job once they have. Then there is the WBC ( the Phelps family and their 1st amendment rights), need I say any more?
old adage..two wrongs do not make a right. It is pitiful that two officers are in jail for doing their job, yet it is no excuse for others not to do theirs..amend that , it is more then pitiful it is sickening, but par for course in these pc times. We could go on all night about the armed forces being tied from doing the job etc etc. Bottom line yo get what you pay for, these current situations are the result of years and years of average Americans being alseep at the switch as far as being watch dogs over their public servants.
 

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CrazyDave said:
Dragoon said:
Seems to me that is one were to speak of lawsuits that these folks would have a valid case against the police themselves at the very least and more to the point it seems that there would be very good grounds to find theses officers criminally liable.. imagine that jailing cops for not doing there job..what a concept!
Stardate 01/25/07

Two ICE officers are sitting in jail for shooting an illegal after he was found crossing the border with a truck full of marijuana. Local accounts (from here in San Diego, site of the atrocity.) are that when he was stopped, he tried to ram the officer who was standing in front of him. He was warned to stop and as he left his car and headed back towards the border, he took a non fatal bullet to the leg.

Both face life sentences. What incentive does anybody have to join ICE let alone do the job once they have. Then there is the WBC ( the Phelps family and their 1st amendment rights), need I say any more?
old adage..two wrongs do not make a right. It is pitiful that two officers are in jail for doing their job, yet it is no excuse for others not to do theirs..amend that , it is more then pitiful it is sickening, but par for course in these pc times. We could go on all night about the armed forces being tied from doing the job etc etc. Bottom line yo get what you pay for, these current situations are the result of years and years of average Americans being alseep at the switch as far as being watch dogs over their public servants.
Agreed, 100%. I just arrived in this fine country and cant yet reach the switch, but if i could!!!!!
 
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cycleheart1100c said:
CRAZY DAVE FOR PRESIDENT!! :)


I'm in and I'm coming to town to chew gum and kick ass and I'm almost out of gum!

A vote for CrazyDave is a vote for mom, apple pie and the American way.

CrazyDave will not violate interns or sleep with the EPA or the DOT

I will enact swift laws making it a federal crime for anyone related to William Jefferson Clinton to ever hold a public office higher then Head of sanitation.

I will make it my sworn duty to free the masses of oppresive helmet and seatbelt laws

I will seek the death penalty

I will seek maxiumn sentencing for vehicular manslaughter especially when it involves the death of member of the two wheeled brethren

I will seek a constitutional ammendment banning the unfair and burdensome practice of taxing homeowners property

Although I think it ludicrous to have to do so I will frevently seek to have english offically recognized as the national language and will have its use
required as a condition of citizenship

Any immigrant that wants to come here and work is welcome, any immigrant that has come here as a way of it's goverments crimminal housecleaning or as means to escape penalty for crimes they have commited will be treated as the scum that they are and will be deported, jailed or executed whichever is best suited to the situation

Immediately upon being sworn in I will work to ensure that child molesters recieve swift and extremely painful executions ( after introducing a constitutional ammendment stating that capital punishment is neither cruel or unusual, but sweet sweet justice )

I will declare Daytona, Sturgis and Laconia bike weeks federal holidays

I will enact swift and terrible retribution to those who seek to obstruct a womans right to set those puppies free at such events

I will require more effective and tamper proof means of videoing an officers actions while on patrol

Seeing that the abilty to tamper with such surveilence has been removed I will introduce the instant justice ammendment stating that when and police officer in the course of his assigned duty encounters a criminal caught red handed in the commision of a violent crime, that officer may at his or her discretion enact instant justice up to and including execution.

CrazyDave..it's a way of life!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
OK, this seems to be getting out of hand. I'm all for fun, but I have to say that this thread seems to show what's wrong with the political climate in this country today. While I don't agree with what the British police *didn't* do with regard to the helmetless bikers, it's a WAAAAY long stretch for me to agree with those who consider "liberal" to be a dirty word.

It is interesting, however, to see where this topic has gone...
 
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