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I've tinkered with cars and motorcycles all my life. I'm pretty good with some things. Not good at all with carburetors. I bought a 2002 VTX which to me is a modern bike. I recently got my wife a Shadow. The VTX is fuel injected, the Shadow has a carburetor. So far I think the fuel injection is good. Ask me later after the fuel pump fails on the road. Which shadows have fuel injection?
 

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Basically, all Shadow 750 outside of the North American continent, had EFI fitted from 2007...
Love EFI...!!!
 

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An early patent for fuel injection dates from 1896.

Kawasaki used one on a motorbike in the late 70's..I think it might have been a Z1000.

John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Fuel injection is NOT modern. It's been on cars for over 50 years.
That's true but the fuel injection of years gone by was nothing like it is now. Until the advent of computerized cars there was no way to adjust half a dozen different functions on the fly. Since electrons travel at roughly the speed of light it makes the computers able to actually make real time adjustments depending on input based on several different data points from the transducers. Another factor is the cost. Our father's fuel injection was extremely expensive, required modification to the engine and required a high level of expertise to even make work properly.
Thanks to mass production even economy cars can come with it. That's what makes it modern. No comparison.
 

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An early patent for fuel injection dates from 1896.

Kawasaki used one on a motorbike in the late 70's..I think it might have been a Z1000.

John.
I don't remember Kawi releasing an FI in the 70's. The KZ1000 replaced the KZ900Z1 but still was a carbed engine. Kawasaki Kz1000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'm guesing that Harley released the first true FI bike followed by Kawi in the 2000's with their Vulcan line.
 

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I could be wrong but without looking it up I think the Z1000 was just an upgrade of the Z1 and was released outside Japan in 1980 as the Z1000h with FI..

As I said I am going from stuff at the back of my mind and from long ago so I could be way out of the ballpark..

John.
 

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I'm not completely familiar with diesel engines but I think they have always used fuel injectors so it would have been a natural progression to use them for petrol engines.

I'm on unfamiliar ground here, both are internal combustion engines but one works with an ignitor (spark) and the other works by compression, apart from the different fuels I can't see much difference between the two.

Whole new can of worms..

John.
 

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That's true but the fuel injection of years gone by was nothing like it is now.
Same is true of ignition, brakes, steering, structure, suspension, insulation, paint, entertainment and just about anything you can think of on today's vehicles. And telephones. And televisions. Even computers. (Yes, they had them 50 years ago.)

It's called "technology" and it advances relentlessly.
 

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I vaguely remember a early 80's KZ1000 being FI but it lasted only 1 yr. in production but memory could be be playing tricks on me too.

Did find this:

This is model was the first mass production motorcycle and only built for one year. The serials run from 500004 - 503205, that leaves 3,201 units.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sR2osMftsFU
 

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Same is true of ignition, brakes, steering, structure, suspension, insulation, paint, entertainment and just about anything you can think of on today's vehicles. And telephones. And televisions. Even computers. (Yes, they had them 50 years ago.)

It's called "technology" and it advances relentlessly.
Agreed. It's claimed that technology pollinates anything in the same room and to a degree that today's devices are already ahead of their time. To my knowledge though, the original design of the FI injectors themselves haven't changed any more than the nozzles on aerosol spray cans. Granted, solid state controllers take FI to another level. But for example FI injectors still use an electromagnet (solenoid) to raise a needle valve off it's seat to mix gasoline with air. The gist is that nobody has been able yet to radically re-design the *injectors* on a FI system. Then again, maybe they have.
 

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To my knowledge though, the original design of the FI injectors themselves haven't changed any more than the nozzles on aerosol spray cans. Granted, solid state controllers take FI to another level. But for example FI injectors still use an electromagnet (solenoid) to raise a needle valve off it's seat to mix gasoline with air. The gist is that nobody has been able yet to radically re-design the *injectors* on a FI system.
Yup. I worked on computerized engine control and fuel injector programs for an American automaker over 35 years ago. Most cars sold in America since the start of the 1973 model year have had all the sophisticated sensors and technology that we see today. Hell, the 1974(?) Gran Torino featured in Clint Eastwood's movie did. Switch if from carb to FI would not have been hard at all *if* there was a throttle-body that would bolt onto the intake manifold.

Have to laugh every time a novice starts raving about the wonders of some "modern" technology. Reminds me of something my father told me many years ago: Every generation gets its first experience with sex then think they're the ones who invented it.

Until the advent of computerized cars there was no way to adjust half a dozen different functions on the fly. Since electrons travel at roughly the speed of light it makes the computers able to actually make real time adjustments depending on input based on several different data points from the transducers.
You know, I've been thinking about that. Since October of 1972 (that's when the first 1973 model year cars were sold), every gasoline powered car or truck sold as new by a major manufacturer has been computerized. Emission regulations mandated it. That's only 42 years, not the 50 I cited. But it's just about EVERY car and truck.

Another factor is the cost. Our father's fuel injection was extremely expensive, required modification to the engine and required a high level of expertise to even make work properly.
Thanks to mass production even economy cars can come with it. That's what makes it modern.
Been thinking about that, too. Do you realize what a 1973 Mercedes 450SE carried for a sticker price? 13 grand -- about the same a the cheapest car available today. Hmmmm.

Adjust for inflation! you cry. Okay. But first do it for gasoline. You'll find that fuel was MUCH more expensive back then than it is today so it would have made more sense to install FI back then. Mass production savings are no different today than back then -- and just as much an illusion poorly understood by almost everyone.
So why now but not then? Legislative mandates (for emissions AND fuel economy) along with the consumers' acceptance of paying significant premiums for mandated equipment.


One more thought: That wonderful FI won't be doing anyone much good if we encounter an EMP of any significance. Not that it wouldn't affect those of us with carbureted Shadows. The folks who will still be driving will be those with carbureted diesel engines -- though gasoline engines that predate solid-state ignition (i.e. ones with distributors) will be running until the supply of points is exhausted. Or the last timing light fails.
 
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