Honda Shadow Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Working on an '05 VT1100C2 for a friend...

He was originally working on cooling fan to get to work (everything else was fine)

He replaced sensor, then it wouldn't crank

He replaced starter relay, and now nothing ( no lights, indicators, neutral light, etc....IE = DEAD)

battery tests good
all fuses good
diode in fuse box good
all grounds good
ignition switch good
fuel pump cutoff as a diode fails, however checking continuity is good
checking fuel pump voltage is odd
per service manual + to middle harness wire and - to ground reads 0, however, when I reverse and connect + to battery and negative to any wire on harness, it reads 12 volts indicating all are grounds

the wiring on this is weird to me as it seems all circuits are operating by open and closed grounds vs the traditional + circuitry...

any and all input is appreciated...

thanks, ROG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Welcome. First off check all the connections starting from the battery working out especially at the new relay. What kind of voltmeter are you using? Most digital meters will read +12 V with the leads connected one way and -12 V if the leads are reversed. If using an analog meter it may only work for 0V to + V so not show correctly for reverse leads. Normally reversing the leads should only change the reading from + to - not 0 to 12. Make sure your voltmeter is on the right setting too. Maybe post some pics to help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Welcome. First off check all the connections starting from the battery working out especially at the new relay. What kind of voltmeter are you using? Most digital meters will read +12 V with the leads connected one way and -12 V if the leads are reversed. If using an analog meter it may only work for 0V to + V so not show correctly for reverse leads. Normally reversing the leads should only change the reading from + to - not 0 to 12. Make sure your voltmeter is on the right setting too. Maybe post some pics to help.
Thanks!
I've been checking everything as I listed...
I'm using a 12v continuity tester and a digital voltmeter...+ or - volts doesn't matter...it just means the leads are crossed...
dutifully checking settings to ensure what I'm doing is right...

what pics would you like?

thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,712 Posts
If you're talking about the fuel pump cutoff relay, Those are hard to test with a meter, they're an electronic equivalent of a relay, black is power in, black-blue power out, while the yellow-blue goes to the ignition control module with the rear coil negative wire. they depend on seeing the intermittent ground applied by the ICM to fire the coils. essentially might look like a low volt ac signal to a meter when running. it's not going to cause the bike to lose power anywhere else. 1st two things to check are the new starter solenoid, been reports of the new ones coming in with the main terminals reversed. there's also a 30 amp main fuse at the starter relay that could be the real trouble. If it cranks OK, and still won't pump fuel. jumper the black to black-blue in the harness plug for the fuel cut relay, bypassing it. Pump still has an internal pressure shut-off switch.

And a lot of these circuits do count on a ground to work, there's the clutch lever safety switch, neutral switch, sidestand switch. all have to be working and in the right position before the starter will engage. Also won't run if clutch or kickstand is not in correct position when put into gear. couple diodes involved for an either/or path there.
 

·
Registered
1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
Joined
·
16,865 Posts
Some aftermarket starter relays have the main terminals marked reverse from the factory. The Battery main cable has to go to the B terminal. And the Starter main cable has to go to the M terminal. If there is another red wire from the regulator it has to go to B also. The green 30 amp main fuse stops all power too.
 

·
Registered
2002, Shadow Spirit 1100
Joined
·
2,060 Posts
Here is something simple. Unhook the positive cable and hook jumper cables to a non-running car. The positive jumper to the bikes cable bypassing the battery. I had a battery that went bad and this worked for me. I ended up with a new battery and rectifier, everything has been fine ever since. It's worth a try to see if power returns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you're talking about the fuel pump cutoff relay, Those are hard to test with a meter, they're an electronic equivalent of a relay, black is power in, black-blue power out, while the yellow-blue goes to the ignition control module with the rear coil negative wire. they depend on seeing the intermittent ground applied by the ICM to fire the coils. essentially might look like a low volt ac signal to a meter when running. it's not going to cause the bike to lose power anywhere else. 1st two things to check are the new starter solenoid, been reports of the new ones coming in with the main terminals reversed. there's also a 30 amp main fuse at the starter relay that could be the real trouble. If it cranks OK, and still won't pump fuel. jumper the black to black-blue in the harness plug for the fuel cut relay, bypassing it. Pump still has an internal pressure shut-off switch.

And a lot of these circuits do count on a ground to work, there's the clutch lever safety switch, neutral switch, sidestand switch. all have to be working and in the right position before the starter will engage. Also won't run if clutch or kickstand is not in correct position when put into gear. couple diodes involved for an either/or path there.
OK, I'll check against the 'original' relay, albeit there is only one way it can go in...

He bought one and stripped one of the tapped threads, threw in another. I took that one apart and it fell apart in my hands...had to reassemble, but still seemed a problem. Took the 3rd one out and installed...

Positive is on left side of contacts...Ground right side (in riding position)
With key off, all 4 tabs no current
With key on, rear 2 tabs hot

there is absolutely zero activity on controls, IE neutral light, lights in general, starter button, etc when key is turned on....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Some aftermarket starter relays have the main terminals marked reverse from the factory. The Battery main cable has to go to the B terminal. And the Starter main cable has to go to the M terminal. If there is another red wire from the regulator it has to go to B also. The green 30 amp main fuse stops all power too.
OK, I'll check, but as I stated in last post, the hookup is pretty foolproof, pos L, neg R and plug can only go in one way...

I don't quite understand what is meant by 30A fuse that comes with relay stopping power...

thx

Some aftermarket starter relays have the main terminals marked reverse from the factory. The Battery main cable has to go to the B terminal. And the Starter main cable has to go to the M terminal. If there is another red wire from the regulator it has to go to B also. The green 30 amp main fuse stops all power too.
Interestingly the new relay is marked opposite of the one that was in the running bike. With this being said, the M was on the left and battery cable hooked to it. B on right to starter...

since it doesn't look like the cables are transposed, I'm wondering if the contact plugs were switched...

I just tried switching battery and starter cables, but the holes for hold down bolts are offset to prevent this from happening...🙃

Edited...See above
 

·
Registered
1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
Joined
·
16,865 Posts
The 30 Amp Main fuse controls ALL power to the ignition and other circuits.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
99' Valkyrie/North Central Indiana
Joined
·
9,449 Posts
No lights, no start, no blown fuses, my 1st. check would be the right side switch on the handle bar cleaning/check/replacement before going into the all these other scenarios. Mine failed and my bud's pushed me to get it to bump start but unbeknownst to me headlight wasn't working either. Rode 25 mi. home and seen no headlight reflection on the garage door. 14 yrs. old and 14,000 mi. and was a garage queen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No lights, no start, no blown fuses, my 1st. check would be the right side switch on the handle bar cleaning/check/replacement before going into the all these other scenarios. Mine failed and my bud's pushed me to get it to bump start but unbeknownst to me headlight wasn't working either. Rode 25 mi. home and seen no headlight reflection on the garage door. 14 yrs. old and 14,000 mi. and was a garage queen.
Is that the starter button?
 

·
Registered
1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
Joined
·
16,865 Posts
The power goes from that 30 amp fuse to the start switch then to fuses in the fuse box, then to the other circuits.
If you have power into and out of the ign switch, see if is getting to the fuses.
If the ground cable for the battery to the frame and engine is not a good connection, it will do the same thing, since that is the return path .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Problem solved!

swifty2014, you were right...as a last resort, I pulled the positive wire and the starter relay, flipped it upside down and connected it to the B terminal, hooked the connector plug and battery up, turned on key and wola, lights on...

next I had to pull the + wire and starter wire, grind down the sides to remove the hole offset so I could reverse the terminals that attach to the relay....

put it back together and it runs...and the fan works, which was the original problem....

now on to the next issue, while idling, there's fuel dripping from a tube below the frame...anyone know what that's all about?

thanks again to all who replied and offered solutions, it's what keeps these forums at the forefront...
 

·
Registered
1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
Joined
·
16,865 Posts
Great news !!!

The fuel hose could be the tank vent or the float bowl vent hose.See if you can follow it up.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top