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1983 vt750c
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I got a clymer manual gives 3 different spark plug types dont feel like getting exact number now but in the sequence there is a number 7 which is for ambient temps under 40degf mostlikey the plugs spark a bit hotter to allow the engine to warm up faster and stay warm. Another one is 8 which is for ambient above 40degf basic normal plug for the 83 vt750. Last is a 9 which is recommended for prolonged highway speed mostlikley sparks at a weaker rate keeping the engine a bit cooler so you dont over heat on the long road trips cross country.

I dont use sealer plugs because if your leaking out of your plug that's a bandaid either you stripped the hell out of your plug and need to have it re tapped or possibly a more drastic solution, or the leak is from a different spot and looks like it's from the plug. On top of that the plug is designed without that 3 to 4mm of extra metal between the plug and the sump.

Conventional oil is straight crude oil most of the time does not have any additives to assist lubrication of your internal parts, the oil is much thicker making your pump work harder, the oil chemistry of the molecules bunch up together under certain situations causing clogs and giving you more issues then you really want to deal with. Synthetic oil is man made designed with lubrication in mind prolonging your internal parts of your engine, bearings, walls piston rings, ect. The benefit of extend oil changes isn't a strong point I still change mine once a year just a good habit.

There you go bud satisfied with my answers there bud?
 

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Thanks Guys! That was the info I was looking for. I checked with babbitts online and their prices were very good, except for the shipping, which you really cannot avoid. So I will wait until this weekend and call around to different bike shops to see if any near me have the parts I need. Thanks again, it is greatly appreciated!....
Oh yeah, that filter wrench I think I may already have, had a bunch of quads and a street bike or two and I believe I still have it in my tool chest...
Dont use babbits use bike bandit or partzilla find more parts you might need get it over 100 or 150 and you get free shipping both of those companies have been around longer and have better customer service. Just my 2cents.
 

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06' VT1100C99' GL1500C Valkyrie
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So just to confirm: always synthetic, never conventional and don't use a sealing washer. Just a few questions: why, why, why? Plus can you explain why you are using a different heat range plug due to ambient temperature?

G.
1st. Clymers is worse than Chilton as far as manuals are concerned. Honda OEM for the bikes.

2nd. The purpose for a sealing washer is to seal and take the movement/friction of the drain bolt head from goring your engine case.

3rd. Oil preference is one's own CHOICE. As for me, my rides have been low mileage when I switched to Rotella T6 synthetic as it was one of the best @ $22 or less @ $14 with rebates and 11% discount. 2 yrs. ago the EPA made mandate changes to diesel oil and my Valk didn't like it thus Valvoline 4T is my choice for now. Dino has been here for many moons and 300,000 on old 283 ci. SB was common in the good ole' days @ 3,000 mi. intervals. Changing oil every 5,000 mi. regardless the type of oil is my preference as Honda recommends every 8,000 on GN4 dino.

4th. Which parts supplier is better? Whoever is cheapest with shipping included as nearest Honda dealer is 70 mi. away. They all get their Honda parts from the same regional warehouse. I've been using Partzilla of late due to my go to supplier of 8 yrs. updated their site and got ridiculously pricey

5th. And last, be a little more respectful in your posting as we are here to help/inform others with valid info. Its not a peeing match and those who continue this behavior don't stay long. Looking forward to more valuable input from you sir.
 

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And then me...
I like to keep locals in business, so I use my friendly HONDA, NAPA O`Riellys and other locals for my purchases...
I Like to FEEL the items I buy, before I buy them ;)
That`s just Me,
Dennis
Besides, have ya ever returned an item through internet purchase?
I just bought an LED headlight bulb and don`t like it...
Am I gonna return it CHINA?? Hello NO!!!
Only 10 HondaBucks wasted, but Still!
 

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1983 vt750c
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If your oil drain bolt is shifting while installed it's not torqued down to speck no bolt when properly installed should be shifting. Get a torque wrench grab that Haynes or clymer manual find the correct spec and set it. Mechanic 101 just smart. Work smarter not harder. That's not the purpose of the oil seal washer. If you want a washer sure use it not my bike but know what something is before you use it on your own equipment.

I agree I use shell rotella for my tdi, only oil I trust for diesels, other then that royal purple for everything else crank case, gear oil, ect. Yea its more expensive but when you start to go cheap on your oil you'll want to try and save money in other places and it will bite you later on.

Um clymers worse then others? Lmao your joking right? It's a repair manual a legit mechanic took their time to get all the information and go a step farther then the manufacture manual. It's not some keyboard warrior with his missing teeth and crappy welds trying to tell others what to do. I trust clymer and Haynes before manufacture they have given me the correct information when others have lacked especially when Forums could never give you a straight answer and you guage to figure it out on your own. 15 dollars vs hours wasted trying to repeat your self 100 times when no one reads your actual words.

You wont return something when it's broken? That's stupid get your money back. When I dont use bike bandit or partzilla I use amazon cheap easy sometimes you get good chines crap but when it doenst work it's free shipping all the time and you always get your money back. Number 1 rule when buying parts know the return policy.

Sorry dad you dont tell me how to act on the internet that like trying to tell a chimp not to eat a banana. Respect? na respect is when you know facts and dont question when you might think something is better when you legitimately know nothing. People stay at a forum when they actually get help not by kindness.
 

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1997 Valkyrie Standard
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Just to weigh in here, the Clymer and Haynes manual you put your faith in has been proven to be inaccurate on many occasions in regards to the Shadow line, hence to the preference for the factory service manual. I have experienced the same with a Clymer manual years ago with a Jeep Cherokee I used to own. That said, something is better than nothing sometimes.

In regards to not telling you how to act on the internet and the kindness comment, you are dead wrong. I will certainly be telling you how to act on this board. Acting like a jagoff will certainly end someone's tour on this forum. Secondly, many people initially come here for tech advice but it certainly isn't what keeps them here.
 

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1983 vt750c
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Just to weigh in here, the Clymer and Haynes manual you put your faith in has been proven to be inaccurate on many occasions in regards to the Shadow line, hence to the preference for the factory service manual. I have experienced the same with a Clymer manual years ago with a Jeep Cherokee I used to own. That said, something is better than nothing sometimes.

In regards to not telling you how to act on the internet and the kindness comment, you are dead wrong. I will certainly be telling you how to act on this board. Acting like a jagoff will certainly end someone's tour on this forum. Secondly, many people initially come here for tech advice but it certainly isn't what keeps them here.
Add links words are nothing without proven facts I've used Haynes for cars all my life has never let me down used it to rebuild my ax15 transmission on my jeep and worked flawlessly. Used a clymer to rebuild 4 motorcycle engines in the past and their still running strong after hundreds of miles on the rebuild. Most of the time the issues with the manuals are user error.

Only give respect to those who deserve it. When you start asking stupid questions and asking why why why? On a comment like a true dick head that's when I'll act the same way you act to me. But I'm beating a dead horse kids will act like kids cant change that generation no matter how hard you try.
 

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...
There you go bud satisfied with my answers there bud?
Thanks for posting your opinion on various issues. Often, when we see information posted on the forum that we consider incorrect or misleading, a debate gets started that is usually resolved when someone with more experience or more pertinent information shares that information. I don't have a Clymer manual but do have Honda Service manuals and I use a Haynes for general information.

Regarding spark plug heat range. The heat range is to ensure correct operating temperature either by dispersing more or less heat (by the length of the core nose) If you take another look at your manual you may notice the heat range does not refer to ambient temperature. It refers to climate so if you live somewhere that the average temperature in under 5C then you want the heat to dissipate slowly. There is no such thing as sparking hotter or weaker as the three heat ranges spark is the same.

Regarding drain plug sealing washer the Honda Service manual recommends replace if necessary and my owners manual states replace every second time. As far as your statement " plug is designed without that 3 to 4mm of extra metal between the plug and the sump" I have no knowledge of that so can you tell us why Honda designs an engine and then decides at add an incidental sealing washer? Does Clymers recommend no sealing washer?

Finally, your statement "conventional oil is straight crude oil most of the time does not have any additives to assist lubrication of your internal parts, the oil is much thicker making your pump work harder". The only motor oil that contains no additives is API Service category SA (1920s). All other API rated motor oils contain additives. The "thickness" of oil is determined by its viscosity rating so a conventional and synthetic 10W40 have the exact same "thickness" when new.

G.



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1983 vt750c
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Thanks for posting your opinion on various issues. Often, when we see information posted on the forum that we consider incorrect or misleading, a debate gets started that is usually resolved when someone with more experience or more pertinent information shares that information. I don't have a Clymer manual but do have Honda Service manuals and I use a Haynes for general information.

Regarding spark plug heat range. The heat range is to ensure correct operating temperature either by dispersing more or less heat (by the length of the core nose) If you take another look at your manual you may notice the heat range does not refer to ambient temperature. It refers to climate so if you live somewhere that the average temperature in under 5C then you want the heat to dissipate slowly. There is no such thing as sparking hotter or weaker as the three heat ranges spark is the same.

Regarding drain plug sealing washer the Honda Service manual recommends replace if necessary and my owners manual states replace every second time. As far as your statement " plug is designed without that 3 to 4mm of extra metal between the plug and the sump" I have no knowledge of that so can you tell us why Honda designs an engine and then decides at add an incidental sealing washer? Does Clymers recommend no sealing washer?

Finally, your statement "conventional oil is straight crude oil most of the time does not have any additives to assist lubrication of your internal parts, the oil is much thicker making your pump work harder". The only motor oil that contains no additives is API Service category SA (1920s). All other API rated motor oils contain additives. The "thickness" of oil is determined by its viscosity rating so a conventional and synthetic 10W40 have the exact same "thickness" when new.

G.



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Fact and opinion are different statements. When someone knows something about a subject you'd think they would be smart enough to add their actual facts to educate others to enrich their mind.

Thickness and flow of a fluid are different it comes down to the molecules of the fluid take two different oils conventional and full synthetic the conventional oil flows and sticks to surfaces in a much more difficult way needing more pressure to completely coat all the surfaces whereas full synthetic needs less pressure to flow and coat all the surfaces. Full synthetic gets to all of the parts faster then conventional this is critical during cold starts as a dry start for some components such as lifters will degrade and fail much faster. Not sure where you googled that fact but it's a known fact that conventional oil does not have additives maybe some you might spend more money on have added additives but then it's a mix of conventional and synthetic or a half and half. Conventional oil is defined as oil that has no added molecules oil that is just that oil. Full synthetic has some not all of the additives to prolong the life of an engine it has been tested time and time again with race motors to grocery getters. One day take the time buy a bottle of each and run an experiment you'll see the difference.

I guess my words were miss leading when I say spark hotter I mean allowing hotter heat range allowing the engine to warm up faster vs spark colder I mean allowing the engine to remain cooler under prolonged engine run times. The different spark plugs are meant for different ambient temperatures as I stated 1 is for ambient temperature (ambient means the air that is around the engine or when you walk outside) under 40 degrees Fahrenheit, 1 is for ambient over 40 degrees Fahrenheit, 1 is for prolonged highway speed (speed at or above 55 miles per hour) so yes this is necessary to ensure the engine is operating properly. This may not be necessary for newer engines but for older ones they tend to be more finicky needing much more love and care as I give to all of my vehicles large and small.

I dont need a manual to tell me if I need to use a oil plug seal I've been doing oil changes since I've been able to walk. When an engine is in development the engineers who have incredible knowledge backed by their masters and or PhDs. They build engines to tight tolerances, mess with this tolerance and the engine you spent so much money on will be a gigantic brick. Most oil drain plugs are magnetic either by adding a magnet on the end or by magnetizing the entire bolt. This bolt is designed in a position that is at the lowest point of the sump where items that are heavier then oil will sit, if you move this bolt outward with the extra washer you decide to attach, your moving the the bolt away from where it will contact the lowest point of the oil giving the bolt less surface area to grab any flowing metal that is flowing in the oil. Granted if your engine is throwing a lot of metal that's not a good thing though during the life of an engine its fine to have some not a lot of small very very small particles of metal deposited on the end of an oil drain plug.
 

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1983 vt750c
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And then me...
I like to keep locals in business, so I use my friendly HONDA, NAPA O`Riellys and other locals for my purchases...
I Like to FEEL the items I buy, before I buy them ;)
That`s just Me,
Dennis
Besides, have ya ever returned an item through internet purchase?
I just bought an LED headlight bulb and don`t like it...
Am I gonna return it CHINA?? Hello NO!!!
Only 10 HondaBucks wasted, but Still!
I'd love to give my time and money to local shops as I'm all for mom and pops but their return policy is rubbish I made the mistake recently of buying an electric part from one not paying attention to their return policy came home to a part that was defective so I'm out a good 75 dollars but lesson learned I guess.
 

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...When someone knows something about a subject you'd think they would be smart enough to add their actual facts to educate others to enrich their mind....
Exactly.

1. Viscosity is a measurement of resistance to flow. 10W40 either conventional or synthetic both fall within the specified SAE resistance to shear/ flow. Here's a great article from experts: Oil Viscosity - How It's Measured and Reported
Oils that meet the SAE standard using ASTM tests, ensures the oil, whether conventional or synthetic, meet the viscosity and pour point ranges.

2. The statement "it's a known fact that conventional oil does not have additives" is nonsense.
"In today’s passenger car motor oils, the base oil makes up 75% to 80% of the finished product. The additive package makes up another 10% to 20%. A viscosity index improver, which is added to reduce the degree to which viscosity will decrease due to high temperatures, takes up another 5% to 10%. Various inhibitors make up the remaining less than 1%." David Lee Ph.D. Consumer Brand Technical and OEM Manager Havoline Engine Oils
You use Royal Purple and they clearly state their conventional oil contains "an advanced additive package"

3. Again, check your manual and you will find the spark plug heat range is NOT affected by ambient temperature but by climate. That's why no one needs to change spark plugs when the temperature drops for a few months. Here's a short article about spark plugs heat range Understanding Spark Plug Heat Range | NGK Spark Plugs

4. You state "Most oil drain plugs are magnetic either by adding a magnet on the end or by magnetizing the entire bolt." I did not know that.

5. " if you move this bolt outward with the extra washer you decide to attach" I am not deciding to attach an extra washer. Its part of the design. The manual calls for that part to be in place.

6. You ask that I buy a bottle of each and run an experiment but you don't describe the experiment. Since I have a lab please indicate the ASTM test number(s) you prefer. ASTM D445 or D7042?

7.Hopefully the admin doesn't kill this debate because there are a lot of statements here that require examination.

G.
 

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Exactly.

1. Viscosity is a measurement of resistance to flow. 10W40 either conventional or synthetic both fall within the specified SAE resistance to shear/ flow. Here's a great article from experts: Oil Viscosity - How It's Measured and Reported
Oils that meet the SAE standard using ASTM tests, ensures the oil, whether conventional or synthetic, meet the viscosity and pour point ranges.

2. The statement "it's a known fact that conventional oil does not have additives" is nonsense.
"In today’s passenger car motor oils, the base oil makes up 75% to 80% of the finished product. The additive package makes up another 10% to 20%. A viscosity index improver, which is added to reduce the degree to which viscosity will decrease due to high temperatures, takes up another 5% to 10%. Various inhibitors make up the remaining less than 1%." David Lee Ph.D. Consumer Brand Technical and OEM Manager Havoline Engine Oils
You use Royal Purple and they clearly state their conventional oil contains "an advanced additive package"

3. Again, check your manual and you will find the spark plug heat range is NOT affected by ambient temperature but by climate. That's why no one needs to change spark plugs when the temperature drops for a few months. Here's a short article about spark plugs heat range Understanding Spark Plug Heat Range | NGK Spark Plugs

4. You state "Most oil drain plugs are magnetic either by adding a magnet on the end or by magnetizing the entire bolt." I did not know that.

5. " if you move this bolt outward with the extra washer you decide to attach" I am not deciding to attach an extra washer. Its part of the design. The manual calls for that part to be in place.

6. You ask that I buy a bottle of each and run an experiment but you don't describe the experiment. Since I have a lab please indicate the ASTM test number(s) you prefer. ASTM D445 or D7042?

7.Hopefully the admin doesn't kill this debate because there are a lot of statements here that require examination.

G.
Okay I'll reply like you do to ensure less miss communication.

1. Correct rating of an oil sets its flow rate but each oil flows differently. For instance here is a youtube video of some dude running a lab experiment with amsoil and royal purple (kind of wish I didnt say royal purple is the best as this video proves me wrong but I still like and trust their oil but oil preference really is bias opinion) in the video you'll see he runs a flow test of the two oils amsoil destroys royal purple and flows much faster then the royal purple. He also does a test on heat on a bearing lubricated and cooled by the oil the amsoil kept the bearing cooler vs the royal purple proving the fact of a better flowing oil will cool and protect the engine better. During this test both were the same viscosity rating but different oil brands.

2. Done with the pissing match you think your right I think I'm right not wasting time with this one anymore.

3. Let me grab a photo from my manual.
20200303_001848.jpg
Take a look at the photo. As you can see the manual states 1 type of sparkplug for cold weather 41f 5c or below 1 type for standard heat range meaning above 41f 5c and 1 type for prolonged high speed riding. When I say ambient that means climate man sorry if I went too scientific taking a physics class in college right now and always got scientific words on the brian. Ambient temperature is the temperature around the bike so if its 60f out and you feel like not wearing a jacket that's because the ambient temperature makes you feel warm enough not to need one whereas if its 30f out and your real cold and you feel like you need a jacket to keep you warm the ambient temperature is cold to your body. Again I'll state that some new bikes might not need this type of specific spark plugs for certain situations but mine does so I do so. Like right now ambient temperature is below 40f so I run the spark plugs for that temperature when the weather or ambient temperature gets warmer I'll be swapping to the other plugs. Havent used the prolonged high speed plugs yet looking to use them this summer will be riding to florida for a few weeks should be an interesting adventure.

4. Yup ever pull a plug and have some very small minute gunk on the end that's shards of metal not a big deal as when an engine is running the friction of metal to metal even with oil for lubrication tiny little shards come out and are grabbed by the oil drain plug to prevent the small shards from causing havoc in the engine. Some motors might catch them in the oil filter before getting to the oil drain plug though.

5. If its factory then use it I've never owned any vehicle or motorcycle that's used a sealing washer. Some drain plugs you can purchase that have a rubber washer built into the plug itself but I've never used one.

6. The video I supplied my suffice enough if you wish try his method seems to work.

7. Agreed seems like a lot might learn from this thread.
 

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#1 They're testing automobile oil thus your RP could be better in motorcycle specific oil.

#2 Skip.

#3 I've never messed with plug heat ranges as I live in 4 season climate (winter layup) and I don't mess with/change the stock exhaust. All is good.
#4 I drain my vehicles while hot so that not something I hang around to check. :giggle:

#5 All my auto line do not have sealing washers but the bolt heads are specially designed differently than the more mundane looking bolts used on the Honda MC thus the use of sealing washers. Went back as far 1977 and washers were being used for bottom drain engines.
#6 A good test to use if one had that much curiosity but I doubt that I'll live long enough to see 300,000 mi. on my Valk which is common mileage for the flat 6 motor to say my oil was better or worse @ $25 a change.

#7 Alot of us have been here 10 yrs. plus and we seen just about every dang MC related tech threads at least 5 times over so forgive us giving advice that has been somewhat proven many times over but to everything there are exceptions.

Time for coffee refill. :coffee:
 

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Item 1 on the oem parts page quotes the oil filter and wretch as a 'set'. They're sold together as a unit. For that price, they're not gonna include a spare drain plug washer and a barrel of oil. Or, fries for that matter. Since the oil filter is hard to reach on a 600, I highly recommend getting a filter wrench that's guaranteed to fit. He can include brake pads, etc, in the same order to reduce the shipping cost per item.

View attachment 285161
Following the thread. Brake pads that's smart! even if you don't need them you have em for when you do. I do this for my cars.
 

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Gotta say. It's been a while since we've had a quality arguem... er... deba.... er.... discussion on oil(s) around here. Next up for your viewing pleasure: Helmets! I do appreciate the above conversation getting a little more civilized! I was afraid it was going to fall off the rails there for a little. Thanks guys. Me personally, I'm going to follow what Mr. Honda sez I should do with the bike he disigned. I'm gonna put Honda oil in it and put a 35 cent crush washer on the bolt every time I change that Honda oil. I do sneak a magnet on to the drain plug when no one is looking, but that's just me. I'm not going to tell others they need to do so and I sure ain't gonna tell someone they're a dumbass if they don't. I'm too busy saving my ammunition for when we start arguing tires and chaps versus armored jeans......
 

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Conventional oil is straight crude oil most of the time does not have any additives to assist lubrication of your internal parts, the oil is much thicker making your pump work harder,
IMO use Royal Purple oil and K&N oil filter. Full synthetic always never use conv oil. You wont need a sealing washer just torque it down to spec and ensure the threads are clean and not chipped. buy from amazon most of the parts are always cheaper or at least same price but with free shipping and easier to find. I'd also recommend using Hot Shots Secrete Diesel oil additive
On the one hand u act like u know everything, but then you recommend not to use washers (which is :poop: ) to use diesel additives (??), and behave quite ignorant. I think you read the wrong books.

For the thread starter:
--Washers are there for a reason, so please take e.g. copper washers (can be re-used, heat up until red heat, I did that once). Get a bag of washers, copper or aluminium and your're ready for the next years. Usually, you use them just once.
--Don't use oil additives that are not made for the use in bikes, as they can cause clutch slipping due to friction modifiers. You might end up buying a new clutch... some are happy with car oils, I would not risk it.
--Synthetic oils are a good option, but there are good semi-synthetic oils around. I go for synthetic, like Fuchs Silkolene, Putoline, and most of all, Motul 5100 (semi-syn) and 7100 (fully syn), and of course many more. Myself, I am a Putoline-fanboy, I was very happy with motul, currently I have the Silkolene 15w50 just because it was on sale. Motul 5100 10w40 and a good brand name oil filter would be a good choice for you.
--any oil has additives, except some specialised oils for vintage cars, e.g. for old VW Beetles that do not have proper oil filters, unless the engine is restored and has a modern oil filter, oils with additives will be fatal
--What I miss most in this discussion is the fact that for bikes you have to take a jaso MA2 oil, as they don't cause clutch slipping. When you get yourself a Harley or a BMW one day, you can take oils without MA2, these engines have a seperated clutch.
--Even thicker oils can be good for the motor, e.g. hot circumstances, and thick base oil usually can take more beating.
--I don't recommend oils with wide dispersion like 10w60, as they have VI additives that can break down quickly.:)
--when you are not sure if the bike was serviced well change oil more often, like twice a year. I did that with mine for the first 2 years, it was shocking how dirty the oil was.
--you could go for iridium spark plugs if you want to spend some extra money, I am happy with mine, but probably regular ones would work as well
--most of all: enjoy your new bike, have a safe ride!!
 

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When I say ambient that means climate man sorry if I went too scientific taking a physics class in college right now and always got scientific words on the brian.
Perhaps you did go too scientific for me (just kidding) however ambient temperature and climate are 2 different things. Your manual has an asterisk next to the spark plug heat recommendation and that may be confusing you. Underneath it states "Cold Weather Climate 5C". Climate is a long term average temperature over a specific period ie 30 years. I tried various cities and ended up with Juneau Alaska climate average 4.8C . My climate in Vancouver is 11C
So:
1. Those tests were both synthetics as compared to your statement of synth vs conventional. Not quite a lab test. If you want to look at an oil that may run down a tube faster look at the oil PDS for pour point. If you really want an oil that reaches parts quickly at cold temp use a 0W. Personally I stick with 10W40
2. Additives: I quoted Chevron because you use their products. Are you going to provide any facts that conventional oil contains no additives?
3. Spark plug heat range: Ambient temperature and climate are not the same.
4. Magnetic drain plug: I don't think mine is.
5. Drain Plug Sealing washer: "I've never owned any vehicle or motorcycle that's used a sealing washer." I don't know your model so maybe true. Partzilla is good for a parts cross reference in case your manual is inaccurate.

G.
 
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