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Discussion Starter #1
What does the number mean....if I have "165" on the jet, 165 what?....is it .165mm?..... .165in?....I have a 96 1100 that runs so rich, it fouls the plugs within 2-3 tanks...black, sooty mess.....I suspect that the previous owner drilled out the jets....the needles are set where the dynojet techs suggest.....thanks, Mick 8)
 

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slick,
It's just an arbitrary number that Dynojet uses to classify their jets by flow volume. Dynojet's numbers do not correspond to Keihin's numbers - according to Dynojet techs. In other words, a Keihin #165 doesn't flow the same amount of fuel that a Dynojet #165 jet does.

Did you do a proper plug reading or just pull the plug out of a cold engine after the engine had idled? This would only tell you how the Air/Fuel mixture is at idle. I have a '95 1100 with 160 main jets, I think that's probably what you should be running also. The needles should be DNO129's. Do you have an aftermarket exhaust?

http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/1152.pdf

Brian
 

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White Knight said:
normally though the number correlates to .xxx in inches if memory serves
Not with the Dynojet jets, they go by the volume of flow that the jet is capable of. I compared the orifice sizes of my stock Keihin jets to the diameter of the Dynojet's jets and they were not the same. Close, but not the same. Neither measured .160.
 

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navillustoo

i noted that the second poster was correct in his assessment of the dynojet jets. then added what you quoted which in my experience is true
 

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Don't forget to check mixture screws. If they have been tampered with and screwed out too far then you are going to run rich and have problems.

Check for needle position, main jet size, pilot jet size, are the right heat range of plugs installed, is the choke stuck.

I would suggest going to honda dealer and buying the stock jets along with the next size up. Go back to stock first and see what results you have.

If you have mods to the bike then I would suggest starting at the next size up from stock on the main jet. Having just pipes as a mod really shouldn't effect fuel mixture issues, but if you have an air box mod or aftermarket intake you probably should go with a little richer main jet. If your turning your mixture screw out more than 3.5 turns then you need to bump up the pilot jet as well.

--BB
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The bike came with V and H straight pipes without baffles, runs, starts just fine, throttle response is good, the plugs come out black and sooty after running at 60-70 within 1-2 hundred miles, they break down at higher speeds, I have replaced the plugs, recommended type, and air filter, choke works as it should, happened again within 200 miles, all 4 plugs show the same, pulled the carbs, 165 mains, needles set on the 4th groove, as per dyno jet techs, ...was going to remove the main jets and see if they have been modified, that was why I asked the original question....no other mods, this thing it running RICH, get 35mpg at best, going through alot of plugs, I adjusted the slow mix screws as directed to highest idle, no help, any other ideas?....I got baffles that I'm going to install, she's too loud for me....thanks for the help, Mick
 

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jets

I don't know about newer kehin jets, but the kehin jet #
used to (and may still) mean the size in mm's
eg: a 130 jet = 1.3mm
So, if that scheme is still in use a kehin 165 jet should
be 1.65mm or about .065"
 

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Re: jets

crazyneal said:
I don't know about newer kehin jets, but the kehin jet #
used to (and may still) mean the size in mm's
eg: a 130 jet = 1.3mm
So, if that scheme is still in use a kehin 165 jet should
be 1.65mm or about .065"

That's right.

Japanese made stuff is going to be in mm (metric).
As stated a 130 will be 1.3mm or ~0.051 inch.

Jets in American stuff will be in inch size.

The Dynojets are spec'd by what navillustoo said... it's known in the industry as "Square area".
 

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slickster,
I would recommend going back to the stock setup then if the only mod has been pipes. Its common (at least in my experience) to not have to do anything with the carb when only adding pipes because (and this is argued) exhaust doesn't really effect air/fuel mixture.

What probably happened is that the previous owner or whomever installed pipes and then installed a jet kit causing you to run rich because your now dumping more fuel and not providing any more air for combustion.

So, you have two solutions. Modify/Buy an airbox or rejet back to the original and work from there. Cost wise I would recommend that latter.

--BB
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've heard that the stock size mains are 160, assuming mine are 165, that shouldn't make the plugs foul after 1-2 hundred miles, I'll pull out a jet and go to the honda shop and see if they have a jet tool, back in the day, there was a tool for measuring and reaming out jets a little at a time, is there any other possiblity that I am missing that could make this thing dump so much fuel besides oversized mains?.....will dropping the needles help?....as said before, they are set where dynojet recommends....perhaps I should go with stock jets and needles and go from there.....exhaust does affect the carbs as they provide better air flow and can cause lean running, especially at higher rpms....one reason pipes "blue"....thanks to all, Mick
 

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slick,
First off, I assumed your '96 1100 is not an ACE, if it is, then none of the stuff I've posted is relevant.

If you have 165 jets in there, I'd bet the wrong jet kit was used. The '97 and later VT1100's used the #1188 jet kit. Your bike should have the #1152 kit. The 1152 kit's largest jets are the #160's. The stock Keihin jets that were in there originally were marked 165. The two kits don't use the same needles either. I believe that in '97, changes were made to the carbs that were used on the earlier model VT1100's and thus the need for the two different jet kits. I don't know what the difference is between the two needles - DNO129 and DNO131 - but obviously they and the 165 jets are too much for your bike's engine.

If you are running freer flowing after market pipes, with or without baffles, you need to rejet the carbs. The carbs are set up very lean from the factory, and ANY change to the pipes WILL require a rejet to maintain a proper Air/Fuel ratio. I know I sound like a broken record to some around here, but some people still seem to believe in the misconception that you can change your exhaust and not need to rejet. Of course, you don't HAVE to rejet, the engine will still run - allbeit VERY lean - but you NEED to rejet. Otherwise, your engine will most likely die a premature death.

Brian
 

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ok, i'll concede that exhaust mods could cause a lean running condition and yes lean condition will create a hot combustion chamber and lead to pipe blueing.

Slickster I would keep it simple. Right down the setup you currently have, including mixture screw settings, jets, needle position.

Then I would put the carbs back into their stock configuration and adjust from there. Right down this configuration and then run and check plugs.

Continue this process until you are satisfied with performance and fuel economy.

When you say the needles are on the 4th groove are you counting from top to bottom or bottom to top. If you are counting from bottom to top then they should be set correctly. If you are counting from top to bottom then yes lowering the needle should help. The needle is what provides fuel from roll on to mid range. The main will not be in full use until you run near full load.

--BB
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Whoa, good advice and thoughts, when I pulled the carbs, I got the dunojet instructions off the net, assuming the one that did the mods used a dynojet kit, it shows that the jet recommended is a dj170, it has a jet in it now just marked 165, no DJ prefix, and the needles are cut off just as the instructions say, the top 2 grooves are cut off, there are 6 rings originally, the needle has 2 rings below it, so I assume it is in the 4th.....kind of a mess, I'll get with the Honda shop and order stock jets and needles and proceed from there, or should I get a Dynojet kit and go with that?.....it is a 96 ACE 1100...this isn't a slight throttle response or hard start problem, it fouls all 4 plugs within 2 tanks.....what do you think and thanks for the assist....Mick :shock: :shock: :shock:
 

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slickster said:
Whoa, good advice and thoughts, when I pulled the carbs, I got the dunojet instructions off the net, assuming the one that did the mods used a dynojet kit, it shows that the jet recommended is a dj170, it has a jet in it now just marked 165, no DJ prefix, and the needles are cut off just as the instructions say, the top 2 grooves are cut off, there are 6 rings originally, the needle has 2 rings below it, so I assume it is in the 4th.....kind of a mess, I'll get with the Honda shop and order stock jets and needles and proceed from there, or should I get a Dynojet kit and go with that?.....it is a 96 ACE 1100...this isn't a slight throttle response or hard start problem, it fouls all 4 plugs within 2 tanks.....what do you think and thanks for the assist....Mick :shock: :shock: :shock:
slickster,
Everybody has an opinion, they're like ....well you know, I've never understood the burning desire some people have to take a pretty decent running engine and think they know about it than the guys that built it...especially when it's done by top notch company like Honda.

You asked for opinions, I'll give you mine.....return everything in the motor/exhaust system back to the way Honda made it. You may actually get a motorcycle that runs correctly!

That's just my opinion, and with it you may be able to buy a cup of coffee if you add $1.29 to it!

John
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good point, I have thought about puting this thing back to stock, if I can find the exhaust and the brackets/pieces to make it work, that would be fine with me, it is clear that the previous owner made some errors in this set-up, hopefully with the baffles installed and the stock needles and jets back in, it will run as it should.....thanks to all.....Mick
 
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