Honda Shadow Forums banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
1983 Honda vt750 Shadow
Joined
·
19,623 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Registered
2013 Honda Shadow Phantom 750
Joined
·
4,542 Posts
The two cited instances say the Teslas hit the bikes from behind and in one case “ejected” the rider. Just how fast were these Mormons going??? They are hitting emergency vehicles on the shoulders of the road and pedestrians too.

I have said it many times that this “auto drive” BS was gonna kill people, sadly it seems I was right.

Thanks for the article @swifty2014

Eric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1997 VT1100C Shadow Spirit
Joined
·
113 Posts
Yep. Electronics sometime goes wrong. After two years, iPhones act funky. I’ve had a 4yr old car with electronic temp control that would kick ON the heat for no reason, even in the summer. And don’t get me started on my wife’s horrible Jaguar wiring.

But the things I’ve mentioned are inconveniences.
Autopilot in cars, if and when they go awry, kills people.
 

·
Registered
1997 VT1100C Shadow Spirit
Joined
·
113 Posts
Always since I was 14, every time I throw my leg over my bike, EVERY vehicle out there is set to kill me. ALWAYS check your 6 o'clock. 72 and still riding.
Yep! My kids both are riding now. I told them that the only way they’ll be safe on the road is if they assume that EVERYONE is an idiot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
When a man kills somebody, they call him a murderer, ... when he kills a lot of people, they call him a millionaire.

Tesla covered their ass with the fine print that states the driver has ultimate responsibility, and the autopilot's are incapable of guiding the vehicle in all circumstances. Trouble is, the systems work well enough for the drivers to put their faith in them, until something goes wrong.

Have something to cover your own ass. It won't save your life, but it will make it a heck of a lot easier for your wife and family to assign responsibility where it is due. https://www.amazon.com/Dashboard-Re...Detection/dp/B0B3SCL1FT/ref=asc_df_B0B3SCL1FT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
I do think they should call it anything, but auto pilot or self driving. Those terms do make idiots think the system is fool proof. Though I do not agree with how Tesla has handled this situation, they are correct in saying it IS the drivers responsibility to drive the car. I wonder how the insurance compaines handle these cars when they are involved in an accident CAUSED by the car malfunctioning?

Personally I think the NHTSC should ban all self driving cars. The tech is just not safe enough yet. All vehicles on the road need to be equipped with mesh transmitters that broadcast to all other vehicles near them their current speed, direction of travel, vehicle type (weight) and a host of other important information. Start to change a lane and all vehicles near you respond. This information would ensure ALL vehicles would see each other preventing this very accident of being rear ended.

I know we have to start somewhere, which is what Telsa and other self driving car companies have done, but until all vehicles have this ability the ones that do have it need to be restricted in their deployment of it.
 

·
Registered
02 1100 Spirit / 2012 Goldwing
Joined
·
5,216 Posts
I recently got an UBER and it was a Tesla. Its an amazing car. I asked about autonomous mode. He told me that the driver has to make some action with the steering wheel at certain intervals to let the system know you are alert. Otherwise the car will pull over and stop. He was in that mode for my entire ride once on the highway. It will slow down and lane change on its own as well. These drivers are totally responsible for their actions. Its not the fault of the car or the manufacturer. Its like saying "guns kill people". Blaming the car for people getting hurt is not an excuse. The car did nothing. Neither does the gun. Its the human operating it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
It has been shown time and again that the computer programs used in Tesla cars are NOT perfect. So it IS the cars fault in a lot of these cases. Remeber the Telsa that drove into the back of a bus that was painted with a sky scene? https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...t-beach-autopilot-may-be-involved-176486.html

Tesla is constantly updating the algorhythms used in their cars, but I don't care how many sensors it has, or how powerful the AI has become, it is still at the mercy of human stupidity, mother nature and plain bad luck. NEVER underestimate the power of human stupidity... Now I may sound like a Tesla critic. Quite the contrary. I would love to own one if I could justify it. I just feel they jumped the gun on the full auto pilot.
 

·
Registered
'83 VT750C; ‘21 SV650A
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
Yes. But they had to make the jump sometime. And doing it now just makes them improve the tech faster. I don’t agree with it, but I can understand it. As well, they need to develop their independent sensors to be able to deal with situations away from the ‘transportation grid’ you mention. It won’t take long for people’s driving skills to degrade even more (if that’s possible) once these all go mainstream.

I still amuse myself by babysitting my Honda Civic’s first Gen auto system. Was coming up behind a group of Harleys on the highway in a light drizzle. Had to brake when I got about ten feet behind them. System never even detected them. But, in the city a few weeks later, it caught and braked for a bike that pulled out in front of me. Definitely hit or miss. Now, the question is, are they as safe as your average driver, in terms of accident rates? 🤔
 

·
Registered
2013 Honda Shadow Phantom 750
Joined
·
4,542 Posts
It doesn’t matter if the software has faults or the hardware had a glitch, the human behind the wheel is still responsible for the operation of the vehicle.

I don’t think that the idea of having telemetry between vehicles will work till all vehicles have it,,,and I don’t plan to get a vehicle that can do that unless I have no other option. If I was driving a vehicle and it all of a sudden changed lanes I would flip out! Then when I got home I would disconnect the thing.

People just need to get back to driving by the rules of the road, not their interpretation of the rules or disregard for them. Put down the dayum phone and drive.

Eric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
'83 VT750C; ‘21 SV650A
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
These self-driving systems would surprise you. Though rudimentary, and flawed, the one in my Civic is pretty impressive for what it is. And from what I've seen of Tesla's, and some of the newer types, they CAN drive unattended for hours at a time in most situations! But yes, it's a bit eerie. Especially for someone that is generally untrustworthy of fellow human drivers, let alone developmental circuits and logic. They're this good now, on their own. When that's fine-tuned, and THEN they can inter-communicate with other vehicles and traffic control systems? I don't think you'll have to worry about it inside the next decade...

I'll secretly hate it, and miss driving, but there are too many clueless idiot morons on the road right now to make it truly enjoyable. It's more of an obstacle course.
 

·
Registered
2013 Honda Shadow Phantom 750
Joined
·
4,542 Posts
These self-driving systems would surprise you. Though rudimentary, and flawed, the one in my Civic is pretty impressive for what it is. And from what I've seen of Tesla's, and some of the newer types, they CAN drive unattended for hours at a time in most situations! But yes, it's a bit eerie. Especially for someone that is generally untrustworthy of fellow human drivers, let alone developmental circuits and logic. They're this good now, on their own. When that's fine-tuned, and THEN they can inter-communicate with other vehicles and traffic control systems? I don't think you'll have to worry about it inside the next decade...

I'll secretly hate it, and miss driving, but there are too many clueless idiot morons on the road right now to make it truly enjoyable. It's more of an obstacle course.
Like other things the self driving cars are the future and the way folks don’t drive it is probably a good thing. But for those of us that actually know how to drive, pay attention while driving, and actually try to get better at driving it is kinda like a slap in the face knowing that some day we will have to let the car do the driving. All because most people just can’t get it together behind the wheel and somebody has to make something new and exciting to sell vehicles and make money.

I don’t really hate technology, I love cruise control and I use a GPS. Fuel injection is nice too, but I gotta draw the line.

Eric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
I don’t really hate technology, I love cruise control and I use a GPS. Fuel injection is nice too, but I gotta draw the line.
Then your not going to like this at all:
Or This:
 

·
Registered
2003 VT1100C Spirit
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
One thing left out of the article is the fact that the automated driving system on the Teslas needs to have a hand on the wheel to work. If the driver's hand is not on the wheel while in auto mode, the car will stop. The other thing is that the Tesla system will stop at a red light, but will not go on its own when the light turns green. The driver has to do that. So, I suppose if you're drunk and want to get home after a night out, you could muster up enough sense to put your hand on the wheel and let the car drive. Then make the car go after it stops at a red light.

Anyway, I'm not defending Tesla, but the drivers of those vehicles bear the ultimate responsibility for killing those motorcyclists.

Right now, Tesla is in trouble in California for possibly misleading buyers about their automated driving system being more than it is. I'm not exactly sure of the particulars, but it has something to do with Tesla telling regulators one thing and buyers another. Worst case scenario for Tesla is that they will not be able to sell or manufacture their automated driving systems in California if the regulators find they knowingly misled buyers. (I doubt that will happen, though.)

FYI, Tesla has over 830,000 automated vehicles on the road right now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,101 Posts
Biker's fault, not Tesla's. Okay, maybe 50%. The infancy of self driving cars will address that. But will the rider be smart enough to stay to the right. Lots of mistakes against the rider.
1. Was in the fast lane.
2. Was impeding one's movement.
3. Rider not paying attention to the rear mirror.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top