^^ He gets it!

I usually just save my breath and tell people to at least give them a test drive before completely dismissing them.. Most will make up their own mind after that. I like your analogy though.

 

I don't see other brands as HD copies. If they are, I could argue that HD copied Indian, since Indian started the year before HD. Did Chevy copy Ford, because Ford made the first V-8? (You could turn that around, if it's appropriate.) Point is, there are only so many engine configurations available. Moto Guzzi was the first company to use fuel injection on a production bike, but they don't claim every fuel injected bike since then is copying them. (I obviously prefer the MG image to the HD image anyway.)

 

i completely agree with you. well put. i don't agree with the copies, or clones thing. that can go a million different ways when you go back to the beginnings of different things.

 

One thing for sure. There is not a better topic than Honda vs Harley. I love it! Anyway. HD probably makes the coolest bikes out there. I also love Victory and Truimph. Personally, when I ride in a group its usually all HD riders. I've been told Honda's in back. One guy calls me Shadow. We were lining up for a photo once and was told no Honda's. The day they said Honda in back a guy riding a brand new Streetglide broke down and had to wait on the side of the road to be picked up. All smiles here! Also I take pride in being my own person. The people I ride with look like a pack of leather wearing clowns that all dress exactly the same. How can you possibly think you look cool when you look like everyone else around you. Leather HD vest, HD boots, HD doo rags, HD sunglasses, HD t shirts, HD rings (really) ladies w HD purses, etc, etc, etc, My dad and I get many chuckle's over this. Its to funny. So Harley might make the coolest bikes out there. I just would never own one. No frickin way!

 

I've been told Honda's in back.

We were lining up for a photo once and was told no Honda's.

Man I hope these guys were kidding...This is the part of HD that is not > Honda. Time to find a new group of riding buddies?

 

I personally prefer a MODERN day technological marvel not decades old technology wrapped in and the American flag and then given the "permission" to wear Chinese made overpriced orange and black fashion accessories and toilet paper at the Harley Boutique.

I bought My first and last Harley in the late 80's.....before the sheep herd. I sold into the bubble in the 90's and never looked back.

I don't follow the sheep to the "Harley Boutique" just because I want to be one of the 99% who pretend to be what 1% actually are today. I see bike weeks here and I see one person after another with the SAME bike the SAME costume the same attitude.....rebels? Hardly. And as for patriotism. that horse left the barn a long time ago, Honda employs MORE American workers than Harley Davidson. So which is the more patriotic choice? take the non American parts off the Harley and it won;t move an inch on the pavement.

HD has a storied history of having to be bailed out time and time again either from other companies, other individuals or from the US Gov. Harley Davidson may be 112 years old management is not why it survived nor made a highly profitable company with a great product that lead the rest of the world in its particular market.

o, HD survived because all they knew how to do was to beg for mercy and hope for the best. Harley Davidson copied other manufacturers from day one and played victim ever since to put the blame for their situation on everyone but HD. Harley has NO history of pulling ITSELF out of trouble . They got handouts, buyouts, government trade protections.

Now they are handcuffed by their own "Heritage and tradition" They cannot build a bike that won't overheat unless they turn off the rear cylinder and let it act like a blower to cool the motor in heavy traffic. Modern technology? or hanging on to the vestiges of tradition?

Someone asked me if HD made a plane would I fly in it............Maybe if it had the Porche designed engine in the Street Rod.

Thats why I love about Victory. They have a clean slate. and can really make some non cookie cutter product. There is no more mundane site than 120 baggers parked side in a row at Suck Bang and Blow during bike week.....how do they find their own bikes?

 

Thats why I love about Victory. They have a clean slate. and can really make some non cookie cutter product. There is no more mundane site than 120 baggers parked side in a row at Suck Bang and Blow during bike week.....how do they find their own bikes?

I agree. I am very impressed with Victory. There is a very good chance that my next bike will be a Victory Vision.

 

Interesting thread. Certainly one that pops up more often than not on various motorcycle forums. I am impressed with my wife's Honda Shadow VT1100C. It appears to be the perfect bike for her, and others, due to the low maintenance aspect. My son builds custom choppers and has always said, "those Honda motors are bullet proof." I now grudgingly agree with him. As for "Honda riders to the rear", I think that stinks. In all of my large group runs we place all trikes to the rear. Didn't matter what brand. For me, I enjoy my beefed up 1997 FLSTC and I'm comfortable knowing my saddle bags have most tools and parts for an instant repair if needed. What I do get pis@d off about is motorcycle shops that will not work on metric bikes. You have to go miles and miles to find someone that will do major repair work.

Here's an old photo out of my past. Getting ready to head up PCH for some pool shooting. Had no real destination; just simply end up where I end up.

 

I've posted here before that my father-in-law is Mr. Harley Davidson and busts my chops all the time about riding a Honda. In fact he and I don't talk much so riding my bike the rare time I go to my in-laws home for any reason is about the only thing we have to talk about. Unfortunately we don't share ride stories or love for riding. He busts my chops about riding a Honda and I bust his for the fact that the only time his Harley leaves the garage is to sit in the drive way so he can say "LOOK EVERYONE - I OWN A HARLEY!".

Easter Sunday we had dinner at my in-laws' and I rode the bike there. When I arrived my wife's cousin's new boyfriend was there with his 1200 Sportster. Of course I parked my Shadow right next to it. A couple of people from inside came out to look at my bike. All were commenting how much larger my bike was and how much nicer it was (this Sportster was a bit older and not well cared for). Then the bike owner came out and also commented on how nice my bike was. Someone tried to rib me about riding a Honda and the Sportster dude said (as my friends who ride Harleys say to me all the time "I don't care what someone rides - as long they ride". He went inside and shortly thereafter my father-in-law came out. One of the guys was still out there comparing the two bikes (i.e. mine is larger, longer, higher, etc). My father-in-law kept silent until I said "Look at these two bikes together - which one would you ride?". He actually took a minute to answer then said "That one - it's a Harley".

I almost thought he was going to admit that my bike was nicer! Instead he started ripping on my bike (he called my hardbags wings and made some comment about having to fly because a Honda won't run). I'll never understand that mindset. Of my friends who ride I'm the only one who doesn't ride a Harley - and none of my friends care! I like my bike and paid a small piece of what they paid for their bikes.

 

Just read this thread from the top.....and Mike, Looking at your sig pic.....looks like you had no choice but to succumb to the will of the family. Very nice Sporty.

 

#1 for the 8 ball!

 

I forsee a Victory Vegas or similar for my next bike. Thats after I ride the Shadow till the wheels fall off.

 

That might take awhile. ;-)

 

Who hasn't yet heard that Honda stands for Harley Owners Need Dependable Alternatives?

I told that to a buddy who rides with a local MC. He said that was true years ago, that they always had a Honda or Yamaha ride with them so that there would be a bike to take them to a parts store, but not anymore! Now they have cell phones and roadside assistance!

I cannot lie and say that their isn't a part of me that wants a Harley. Its that visceral gut part of you that says "yeah - Harley!". Fortunetly, there is the gray matter upstairs that says, "I like to be able to ride EVERY weekend, I like to have money to put into the gas tank, and I really don't want to make payments for the next 72 to 84 months".

 

antiquated stereotypes do not fact make..only amounts to what it is, jealous bashing

 

HD makes great bikes, but they are far behind in the entry market level riders. If they dont make big strides in this area they are going to have to switch to health care products, because a large part of their customer base is getting up their in age.

-- from a HD corporate employee.


When I told him I just bought a Shadow, he looked at me and asked why. I said I could not afford a decent Harley, but I could afford a very nice metric... He understood completely.

I like HDs, but I would have to have a pretty nice job to afford one.

 

I don't have either right now, but my Sporty was reliable as any bike I've ever owned. I had to let it go to try to drum up more seed money for my business. When money starts flowing nicely again, I'll go right into the dealer and pick up a new HD this time, I want the street bob with ABS brakes.

 

Note to Crazy Dave: Amen Brother.

I have to admit I get a chuckle when I read a post that begins with, "I've never ridden or owned a Harley, but...." The others that amuse me are when folks test ride a Sportster and then imperiously declare all Harley's as deficient. It's like riding a VLX and saying all Hondas are too small, underpowered and don't handle all that well.

Then there are the folks who declare that people who buy Harley's are middle aged yuppies with an identity crisis. Way to make friends and considering that 1 out of every 2 cruisers, baggers and touring bikes on the road are HD's, I'm sure some folks don't fit that profile.

But what really tickles me is that based on all the supposed animosity of HD riders towards metric riders, in seven years of owning a metric I maybe had 4 people make semi-rude comments out of thousands of riders. You go to any of the bigger HD sites, nary see a comment. But I come here and on almost a weekly basis get told all about my ride by people who have never owned one or even in many cases ridden one. I've been told why I bought it and how much more it is costing me and all manner of information I wasn't aware of. Amazing and maybe someone can tell me why that is.

 

I also get a kick out of those who call the HD dealerships "Boutiques" which I guess technically they are but they fail to consider that you can walk into most HD dealership's butt-a$$ nekkid and walk out with the following:

• MSF Certified Rider
• Motorcycle
• Boots
• Socks
• Underwear
• Jeans
• Shirt
• Belt
• Leather Jacket
• Rain Gear
• Summer Gloves
• Winter Gloves
• Chaps
• Summer Jacket
• Helmet

Name me one other dealership you can do this with. Some of you may make fun of HD riders that look like "pirates" and wear everything HD but the point is if I need new winter gloves, I don't have to go on some message board and ask which website is the best to find winter gloves and then wait a week to get them only to find out that they don't fit and have to send them back.......I can go straight to HD buy what I need. Yes it's a little more pricey but far more practical.

Oh, and for those of you that try to make the naive argument that HD needs to cater to the younger crowd because their current base is getting older and dying off and therefore HD will crater - do you realize how dumb of an argument this? People have been making this claim since before I was born and it was as stupid of a claim then as it is now. HD is still going strong and selling bikes that people want. Unlike Honda.....

 

I am just curious about something.. where are all those cheap reliable jap bike of the 60's and 70's that some of you wrote about? How many are out there for sale? How many are in their fourth, fifth or sixth incarnation, giving a new rider the same anticipation and thrills they did the original?
Say what you will but only with Harley and it's aftermarket support can a nearly 50 year old Sportster or Big Twin be put back on the road to ride again without spending a small fortune.

 

rwm

You go to any of the bigger HD sites, nary see a comment.

I don't know about that. A good friend was trying to decide whether he wanted a Harley or a Victory. He when to Harley and Victory forum and as for an honest comparison. Guess what. The Victory owners bashed Harley and the Harley owners bashed Victory. Almost word for word you could exchange Harley and Victory in the posts.

 

Discrimination = treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

 

Again, HD makes awesome bikes. But almost all HD riders that I know wouldn't know if another company made an equally awesome bike or better bike. They would never ride anything else. They won't even look. I know a guy who recently lost his HD and instead of buying an affordable Honda or whatever. He refuses to ride. He will not be seen on anything beside HD. I guess some people think they are not cool if they ride a Honda. Those people think cool is riding the same bike as everyone else and wearing the same cloths as everyone else. I know some of you say ride what you ride, and thats cool. But come on, HD bashing is fun! I'm not bashing the bikes, just a high percentage of people that own them. Trying to buy cool. It doesnt work. Again, this is fun, hope people don't take this to seriously.

 

I was cool riding a Harley, I am cool riding a Honda.. it is I make the bike cool

 

I just ride don't care what anyone thinks of my bike and I if I see a bike I like I tell the person nice bike the more of us on the road the more people in cars will take notice I hope any way , enjoy the ride, relax life's to short

 

My two cents:

I bought a Honda motorcycle because I have Honda cars and they are very reliable and fun to drive.

On vacation a couple times, I rented Harleys...one year a Cross Bones and one year a Street Glide. They were ok, but did not make we want to run out and buy one.

My impressions of Harley Davidson are:
- Reminds me of Apple in that their products are style based and high priced with a loyal following...not what I would consider value oriented. Apple and Harley are both litigous.
- Harley dealers seem to be a bunch of gouging ba$tards.
- I think Harley has the quality down pretty good, but I do not believe the air cooled engines last as long as the water cooled. I say this because I see a lot of higher mileage Harleys for sale saying the engine has been rebuilt...never seen that on a Metric.
- Harleys seem expensive compared to metrics, especially the used ones.
- A lot of Harley riders seem rude and stand offish...for example not returning the wave. Quite a few seem to be almost hostile toward riders of other brands. I can understand brand loyalty but for some it seems to be almost a religion.

On the other hand, Honda seems to be a value oriented company. They do not seem to be as litigious and don't seem to want to gouge you. Dealers can still be rip offs, but it does not seem to be quite as institutionalized as with Harley. Most Honda and metric riders I have encountered seem to be friendly.

I am very pleased with my Honda Shadow. I would consider other brands in the future. I would never say "never", but at this point, I would pretty much rule out a Harley, not so much because of the product, but because of the company, dealers and culture.

It does surprise me that there are so many Harley advocates in a Honda Shadow forum. I know everyone is welcome here, but if you love Harleys so much, why argue with Honda enthusiasts on their own turf? I don't get it.

The nice thing is this is a free country. Different strokes for different folks. Ride what you want and enjoy it.

 

It does surprise me that there are so many Harley advocates in a Honda Shadow forum. I know everyone is welcome here, but if you love Harleys so much, why argue with Honda enthusiasts on their own turf? I don't get it.

Because many of us at one time, or still to this day have owned Shadows. This is a Shadow forum correct? I know I didn't come here to argue with Shadow owners, I came here trying to learn a few things about my Shadow. Instead you have to dig through piles of Harley bashing threads from ignorant posters who have no justification for the basis of their opinions.

 

okay.. we get it. there are some of you that love harleys.. i don't like harleys at all. i don't find anything special about them. i've tried to like them, i honestly have... because they are after all, mostly made in the U.S. i've ridden many different harley models, and worked on many different harley models. they just ain't for me. i don't get caught up in the mystique that so many riders feel when they are mounted on a harley davidson. some people love harleys.. some people don't. people have their reasons.. other people don't.

it's like this in anything we do.

some people only drive dodge.. chevy.. ford..
some people only ride harley.. honda.. kawasaki.. suzuki.. triumph.. on and on..
some people only watch basketball.. only watch baseball... on and on.
the list could go on forever.

ride what ya wanna ride. there is no sense in trying to stick up for a brand. no need to try to build up harley or honda like it is far superior because the individual will always think their specific make is superior no matter what you say.

 

Harley copied Indian. Indian put a V twin engine in their bikes in 1905; HD put theirs in in 1909. For that matter, Harley also copied bicycles, since bicycles have been around since 1817. They copied many other manufacturers. :twisted: Indian had brakes before HD. Moto Guzzi had fuel injection before HD. Honda had electric start in 1958. HD copied everybody! :mrgreen:


It gets to sounding stupid, doesn't it? I'm really not knocking Harley--- they make a nice looking ride. I'm knocking people who cling to misconception like it was their religion.

 

Being a little disingenuous there aren't you my friend.

Lets look at what you just stated in context. In the time period you are speaking of the early 1900's most all motorcycle manufacturers ended up using the V, it was new, cutting edge, it was the way to go for most.. You say Harley merely copied Indian.. then Indian copied which one of these guys

Early V-Twins

Indian had brakes before Harley you say .. could be, and most all of them only had rear brakes until another 10 years. copied bicycles?? Please it is a motor CYCLE.. like the name implies Harley, Indian and ALL motorcycles of the time were just that, little more then motorized bicycles....

Now I may be wrong ( not ), but there is a big difference between being one of the many motorcycles or an era where all were mere upstarts , each looking to find their way and what works best for them, then being a major manufacturer of light weight high revving vertical twins and fours who decides too use a design that by the eighties was considered rather antiquated, and put it into a package that is big departure from the type of bike you have been building for decades, a package that tries to mimic a certain bike, like say a Harley, the only American V twin cruiser class bike left in existence no less. Why go backwards? Why design a bike to be like an antiquated old oil leaking Harley? Simple Harley OWNED that market and they wanted a piece of the pie, so they made Harley CLONES.. whyt lie to yourself when you know it's true.. further why try to lie to others?

 

I think you're getting lost in the minutia trying to justify a blanket statement. And, thanks to the engineers, others weren't designing their products to BE like HD--- they designed them to be better. That forced HD to get better, so in one sense HD copied the Japanese cruisers, or HDs would still be oil leaking hardtails. It's called competition, and nobody has the market cornered on what the next improvement will be, but you can bet they will all do it if it's an improvement.

 

Mmm better check your facts, again jap cruisers hit the market after Harleys resurgence, after the leaking hardtails ( as you called them ) were long go, after the Evolution motor was in place.. in other words Harley was not playing keep up or catch up... why should they the OWNED the market.. still do btw.. but keep believing that if it work's for you, I guess it must justify something for you

 

I would consider being snubbed when a guy I know ask me when I'm gonna buy some real iron last summer. Also I know where some of those old Honda's are. In my dads garage. He owns 2 69's or 70. Cant remember. Rides them both. He also has a 79 Honda that he rides. His main ride is a Truimph Rocket III. (Awesome) But Hell Yeah. Ride what you like. Everyone has their reasons. I just don't need some HD cool guy wanna bee asking me when I'm gonna buy some real iron. I told him I'm gonna upgrade to a newer Honda. This comes from a guy that recently bought his first HD. Shortly after all his cloths said HD on them. Then came the very cheesy tattoos on his arms. It was pretty funny. I never see this guy ride. He parks his bike downtown in front of the bar at thats about it. I know some say don't knock it unless you have tried it. Won't happen. I rode HD's before, I like them. But will never own one. I know the people like a mention above are rare. (or are they?) But there definetly out there. Those few people are enough to make me never want to buy into the HD Image.

 

This is all starting to sound like the Ford vs Chevy arguments of my youth. All I know is, if it has an engine and two wheels, I would like to own it.

 

When It Comes to Your Ride, Don't Be a One Trick Pony | Motorcycle Parts and Accessories Blog some of you need to read this..really

 

Wow... This is turning into a real barn burner of a thread!

I like Harley, always have. But, I just don't like their prices. Yeah, okay, they are legendary and all that. They all have that famous Harley vibe and image and whatnot.

BUT... In all honesty, there are so many other varieties of V-twins that are quite capable of blowing HD right off the road, in both performance and price.

The two cruisers/tourers that I have really looked at close are:

2012 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad 1700 -- $15,799 MSRP



2012 HD Heritage Softail Classic -- $17,349 MSRP



Now, which one would you rather take on a really nice long summertime vacation/cruise? Richmond, VA ---> head north to Route 17&15 near Fredericksburg, VA. Pick up Route 15 and take it all the way up through MD and PA and all the way to the NY border in Elmira, NY and up northward to the Finger Lakes region to visit some relatives. Then head northeast towards Syracuse/Utica area and visit your sister & bro-in-law's big 125 acre horse farm.

Which one would be very comfortable riding 2-up, get the best gas mileage, and has the best performance and best "bang for the buck"???

IMHO... The Kawi Vulcan Nomad would smoke the HD Heritage Softail Classic right off the road.

 

I'm glad that's just your opinion because I'd say you're dead wrong. I've ridden alot of bikes and I can say "in my opinion" the Heritage is the most comfortable bike I've been on. I've taken mine on multiple trips from Maryland to NY and everywhere else in between and loved every minute of it. And as far as people bitching about the price difference, when you're spending >$15K on a new bike, does $1,550 really make that much of a difference? You'll lose 3x that in resale the first year on your Kawasaki.

Check out KBB for the same bikes 5yrs down the road:

2007 Nomad

2007 Heritage


Here's a 1yr old Nomad.