Insurance companies screwing people...who'da thunk?

 

Insurance companies screwing people...who'da thunk?

:lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

 

One more way for insurance companys to make money. " You ride a motorcyle, well... yeah we can insure you, but.. your montly installments will be $$$$.$$" :shock:

 

I had insurance through one of my previous employers....don't remember what company.....about 18 yrs ago that said : No Racing, Skydiving or Motorcycles.

 

Our self-funded medical plan was amended the first of the year to include a $7,300 hazardous activity deductible (on top of my regular $2700 medical deductible) for services in which you are injured "....riding or racing a motorcycle over 50cc...."

There are two of us out of a hundred who ride bikes to work. Only two.

Obviously, if the accident is not my fault, then someone else will have to pay anyway. If it is my fault... then I'm screwed.

 

Well, I don't like it one bit... BUT, they DO have the RIGHT to do that.

It's their business and they have a right to insure who they want.
They are a business and they are going to do what makes them money and
doesn't cost them money.

Regardless of what people think, that's not illegal discrimination.

Just as you have a right to open a restaurant and serve hamburgers, but
not serve hot dogs.
You have a right to be a 'black-tie' establishment and not serve people
who don't dress to your satisfaction.

The insurance companies have the right to deny coverage to
someone, if they deem that person is a higher risk.

Like I said, I don't think it's right and yes, I do think insurance companies
screw people left and right.
But this country was founded on freedom and yes, even insurance companies
get to enjoy the freedom.

I wonder what the government might do though, once they realize that
once the insurance companies start doing this as a normal practice,
are going to do. If people can't buy insurance for their bikes,
they are going to be doing two things.
They are going to be riding illegally AND they aren't going to be giving
money to the government in the form of registration taxes.
Wonder what the government will think when they realize they are losing
tax money based on the insurance companies doing this?

Just keep your fingers crossed that the AMA can talk sense in the insurance companies.

 

Litnin. I agree with all of your statements. Your right, they do have the right to insure whomever and deny whatever they want. It's their business to do whatever they want with.

But hell why stop at the risk of biking. Let's throw into the pot the risk of piloting aircraft, boating, stick and ball sports, car racing, mountain climbing, jet skiing, snow skiing, snow boarding, scuba diving, surfing and skate boarding.

If they want to make some cash by eliminating their losses due to an insureds risky behaviors, hobbies and life styles, lets get em all in there.

I am just PO'ed because they are singling out bikers. You yourself are involved in a very risky hobby, auto racing. What would your choices be and what would your decision end up being if they said " you are denied
coverage ".

I completely agree with your statement. Insurance is a business and they have their own rights in which to cover whomever they want. Maybe bikers is just the first step in a long list of other activities they are going to deem " risky " in the near future.

Great post BTW. You hit on several good spots.

Chris

 

Well, I don't like it one bit... BUT, they DO have the RIGHT to do that.

Agreed.

 

Chris and Litning, you make good points. Insurance companies have every right to insure who they want and charge whatever premium they want. Just as we have every right to not do business with them. I know that if you have a pre-existing condition you may not be able to switch insurance companies easily. But I'm betting there are a few million able-bodied bikers out there that could exert some pressure if organised. So let's hope the AMA does get behind this quickly to let the companies know that there are a lot of bikers with a lot of spending power who need health insurance.

BTW, if anyone hears info on this, please keep us posted.

 

I listen to Neal Boortz, and last week he had a caller who said her husband's health insurance dropped him because he was a motorcyclist AND a private pilot.

I can sorta understand the cyclist part (most of our injuries are caused by the stupidity of others), but the pilot part floored me.

flying is waaaay safer than driving or even boating...

private flying (unless you are flying an experimental) is even safer than commercial flying.



this is what happens when statistics determine everything, and logical sense is removed from the process.

sure, insurance companies live and die by statistics, but let's demand sensibility behind those stats.

health insurance pays out more money due to the effects of smoking than the effects of motorcycling.
smokers cause their damages, directly; while bikers are usually injured by somone else's negligence.
more people smoke more often than bikers ride (and don't get me started on bikers who smoke and ride at the same time).

which one makes the logical sense to deny coverage for?

which one is this topic about?

 

Well, I don't like it one bit... BUT, they DO have the RIGHT to do that.

It's their business and they have a right to insure who they want.
They are a business and they are going to do what makes them money and
doesn't cost them money.

Regardless of what people think, that's not illegal discrimination.

Just as you have a right to open a restaurant and serve hamburgers, but
not serve hot dogs.
You have a right to be a 'black-tie' establishment and not serve people
who don't dress to your satisfaction.

The insurance companies have the right to deny coverage to
someone, if they deem that person is a higher risk.

Like I said, I don't think it's right and yes, I do think insurance companies
screw people left and right.
But this country was founded on freedom and yes, even insurance companies
get to enjoy the freedom.

I wonder what the government might do though, once they realize that
once the insurance companies start doing this as a normal practice,
are going to do. If people can't buy insurance for their bikes,
they are going to be doing two things.
They are going to be riding illegally AND they aren't going to be giving
money to the government in the form of registration taxes.
Wonder what the government will think when they realize they are losing
tax money based on the insurance companies doing this?

Just keep your fingers crossed that the AMA can talk sense in the insurance companies.

Ah free market is a wonderful thing, and it swings both ways, we have the right to take our business elsewhere, to insurance companies that do not discriminate, we have the right to be both vocal in our applause and support those insurance companies and our disdain at those who do discriminate. Imagine loss of sales, poor public image, etc. these are the things that are within our rights and have shown themselves to make effective changes.

 

ah free market is a wonderful thing, and it swings both ways, we have the right to take our business elsewhere, to insurance companies that do not discriminate, we have the right to be both vocal in our applause and support those insurance companies and our disdain at those who do discriminate. Imagine loss of sales, poor public image, etc. these are the things that are within our rights and have shown themselves to make effective changes.

I don't know how free market health insurance is, tho.

I'm only offered one company to choose from thru my work....

The state has so many mandates on health insurance (pregnancy, drug treatment, and a dozen other things that don't affect me) that i cannot afford non-employer health insurance.....


once i'm allowed to buy only the specific coverages i want from the company I want, then we can talk about free market.

until then, I have to scream and yell at my employer and my state government

 

But hell why stop at the risk of biking. Let's throw into the pot the risk of piloting aircraft, boating, stick and ball sports, car racing, mountain climbing, jet skiing, snow skiing, snow boarding, scuba diving, surfing and skate boarding.

Umm, hate to burst the bubble, Chris, but they are already doing just that. Most of the companies that have such "exclusion" clauses put it in very broad terms. Usually something like "high-risk recreational activities, which include, but are not limited to ..." That way, whatever the activity, they can say, well that's a high-risk recreational activity, so we won't pay.

Don't know if the article you read mentioned it or not, but there was actually federal legislation a few years back to prevent just this sort of thing. It was part of the Heath Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite strong enough, and the insurance companies found some sort of loophole to allow them to continue their exclusions. What the AMA is trying to do right now is to correct that legislation and close that loophole. And yes, like many, I hope they are successful in that endeavor. I'm very doubtful that they will have much luck with the insurance companies.

 

But hell why stop at the risk of biking. Let's throw into the pot the risk of piloting aircraft, boating, stick and ball sports, car racing, mountain climbing, jet skiing, snow skiing, snow boarding, scuba diving, surfing and skate boarding.

And don't forget driving while talking on a cell phone!!!

And no, I would not ride if I was not going to be covered.

 

Hey if you go to the AMA web-site you can instantly email your representitives in Washington about this b.s. I just did and I think we all should, it only takes a minute if that. And with that here is the link...

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp

Shane

 

Agree with all statements about the insurance stuff as well as "cmhdiamond". They're working on it. But WE can make a difference and WE did it once with State Farm Insurance back in the late 80's early 90's.

They were dropping (blacklisting) Sport Bikes with names like: SuperSport, Ninja, GT, ST, Hurricane, etc.. The list was long. But it was a bad mistake. One example: Kawi Ninja 250. DUH!!!

As new owners and old owners started to apply changes (adding a bike or new coverage) they were being denied coverage. Made a lot of the owners MAD. SO, they (the ones that home/life/car/bike insurance with State Farm) started to cancel ALL the coverages and wnet somewhere else. Not a cheap, but got coverage for their bikes and still got the other coverages needed.

Well, it took about a year and a half with much letter writing, phone calls, etc. and the backing of AMA and many other groups/clubs/associations of the motorcycling community...but the relented. Seems it was costing them a bundle in cancellations and lost monies. Plus they didn't raise prices for coverage...at that time.

SO, it can be done. :shock: :wink:

Bullzeyet

 

Write paper letters with real pens. Much, much more impact than emails or form letters.

 

Blue Cross just denied a 23K + claim on a friend who collapsed while running a marathon. Cited risky behavior as the cause.

 

Weird they call running a foot race risky when the people who cost them the most money day in and day out are the folks sitting home stuffing their pie holes.

The overweight crisis is WAY bigger a cost to insurance companies than all of the "risky" behaviors combined.

And +1 on the hand written letter. For every hand written letter to a house rep counts that as representing a 100 votes, and to senators it counts as 1,000. The online form letters are only counted as a fraction of a vote.

 

Litnin. I agree with all of your statements. Your right, they do have the right to insure whomever and deny whatever they want. It's their business to do whatever they want with.

But hell why stop at the risk of biking. Let's throw into the pot the risk of piloting aircraft, boating, stick and ball sports, car racing, mountain climbing, jet skiing, snow skiing, snow boarding, scuba diving, surfing and skate boarding.

Exactly! It's definitely an asinine move. There are plenty of things
that are far more risky than riding a motorcycle that doesn't
seem to catch their attention.

Luckily, when I'm on the race track, I'm actually covered by an NHRA
insurance policy. But in many racing arena, that's doesn't happen.
Would I still go out on the track and walk a 3500 hp race car through the
water box and then let it go buzzing by me at 100mph?
Probably would. But, I'd also be making sure my employer or
the sponsors had some sort of 'medical' coverage for me.

Ah free market is a wonderful thing, and it swings both ways, we have the right to take our business elsewhere, to insurance companies that do not discriminate, we have the right to be both vocal in our applause and support those insurance companies and our disdain at those who do discriminate. Imagine loss of sales, poor public image, etc. these are the things that are within our rights and have shown themselves to make effective changes.

Yes, the free market is a wonderful thing. It has it's good points
and it's bad points, but there's more good than bad and I wouldn't
want to live in any other type of economy.

You are exactly right. We have the power to show the insurance
companies what we think about their policies by going elsewhere,
just like with anything else we buy (except for public utilities/monopolies).
However, the problem *might* and will likely arise in a case like this
is that once one company does it... others will likely follow suit.
If that happens, then it will become an "industry standard" and then
the majority of them have this policy. Changing to someone else
might not be so easy. But as you said, voicing your displeasure is
the best way. Maybe when the few make this policy and people start
to leave, other companies will say "Hey, we can take all their business that
the other companies don't want to deal with.... we'll make more money
by having more customers."

I don't know how free market health insurance is, tho.

I'm only offered one company to choose from thru my work....

You're only offered one company through your work?
Um... You can go out and buy from any insurance company you please.
You don't *have* to buy the plans offered by your company.
BTW, I do understand that most people would have to sacrifice a LOT
to be able to purchase independent health care, but it IS an option
and it IS still free market (right now).

Just wait until this country buckles under and gets socialized medicine.
THEN you will see what not having a choice REALLY feels like.
THEN you'll see just how good the free market health care system really is.

 

This whole issue is the fault of, you'll never guess, our elected officials in Washington. When Ted Kennedy and his staff wrote the regulations for the patient privacy act HIPPA, they managed to put in a big loophole for insurance companies to deny covereage. Wonder who paid for that?

It isn't just bikes. It has been used to deny coverage for horseback riding, hockey, running, ice skating, etc. The MRF, ABATE and AMA have all been fighting this for well over a year. If you weren't aware of it, you haven't been paying attention.

 

i'm surprised that hondaguy hasn't replied yet. i bet he would tell his insurance company that he knows nothing bad will ever happen to him, and then they would insure him. just pokin fun at ya hondaguy, don't get mad at me!

on a related note, many homeowner insurance plans won't cover people with certain breeds of dogs, i can understand that. we got our policy before we got a dog, and have never informed them about it. oops. we're taking a small chance there. but if my health insurance wouldn't cover me on a bike, i'd definatley find another place before i sold the bike! and i wouldn't ride without being covered, just in case.

and if bikes are so dangerous, why is bike insurance cheaper than car insurance?

 

Write paper letters with real pens. Much, much more impact than emails or form letters.

+2 !

 

Here is the article in question:

http://hoglaw1.com/BTR/2007/2007Aug.htm

 

My math may be off here BUT.........only Wassup replied and said he would quit riding if he was uninsured.

I am sure more then one of you do not have health insurance at the moment so it wouldn't matter to you. But for those of you who do have health insurance I pose this hypothetical question to you.

If your insurance company OR your employer said to you today that your no longer covered in the event of a motorcycle crash would you keep riding and risk being wiped out financially from medical bills or would you quit riding ?

I am really curious to know.

Thanks,

Chris